I want to say something like "I am working in my parent's shop. All I know so far is "Ta me a gobair a siopa..." just don't know the rest. Can someone help me with a proper phrase?

Táim ag obair i siopa mo mhuintire

A Róman, doesn't mo mhuintire mean family or folks? Or does the Munster dialect use muintir to mean parent(s)?

Aeromax, your sentence shows parent's which is singular. If that's what you want to say, that is you work in the shop belonging to one of your parents, then it would be:

Táim ag obair i siopa mo thuismitheora.

If you wanted to say that you're working in the shop belonging to both of your parents (I am working in my parents' shop), that would be

Táim ag obair i siopa mo thuismitheoirí.

"muintear" technically means "family", but in reality it is the closest you have to "parents", because your children are covered by "clann". Word "tuismitheoir" is very much artificial phenomenon resurrected for translation of "parent" in legal and official texts, but not used in Gaeltacht, certainly not in the everyday conversation.

Pé scéal é, ibid re "teaghlach". I bet you would never hear this word in Gaeltacht. Thus the logic is:

"mo chlann" - my family in the sense "my children, grand-children". There is no word that would encompass your nuclear family, .i. bean chéile + páistí

"mo muintear" - my family - in the sense you are a child of it. Therefore, in "siopa mo mhuintire" it means "my parents' shop" as the shop usually belongs to the head of family, not to your sisters and brothers - there is no confusion involved.

and the last concept - muintear an tí - all extended family members living together.

As you see there is no exact 1:1 correspondence between Irish and English "family". That is the reason natives don't hesitate to use Béarlachas "family" for want of this exact term.


(Message edited by Róman on July 08, 2007)

All that said, it's remarkably difficult to believe that there is no native Irish term for such a basic concept as "family."

Hello?

(Message edited by domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh on July 08, 2007)

quote:

for such a basic concept as "family."

Hello? When did nuclear family evolve? In 20th century? Do you know anything about nuclear families living separately from grannies before 20th century?

The word you are looking for is "muintear an tí". It is remarkably difficult to believe English do not have a native word for such a basic concept.

p.s. "Family" is a Latin word, and it does not cover "muintear an tí" either

quote:

Word "tuismitheoir" is very much artificial phenomenon resurrected for translation of "parent" in legal and official texts, but not used in Gaeltacht, certainly not in the everyday conversation.

By your use of "resurrected" above, are you indicating that at one time "tuismitheoir" was a valid term? If so, when did it stop becoming valid? And whilst it was valid, did it mean "parent" or something else?

Scríobh Róman:

quote:

Pé scéal é, ibid re "teaghlach". I bet you would never hear this word in Gaeltacht.

Seo roinnt samplaí as Tobar na Gaedhlige:

---

teaglach
Séamus 'ac Grianna: Cioth is Dealán

1 - 1 as 1: abairt 1009, ag toiseacht ar lch 44, líne 23

“Tá sin maith go leor,” ars an mháthair, “fad is bhéas
mise agus d'athair beo agus an teaglach cruinn.


teaglach
Séamus 'ac Grianna: Scéal Úr agus Sean-Scéal

1 - 1 as 1: abairt 3447, ag toiseacht ar lch 149, líne 26

Acht, nuair a leigeadh isteach iad, nach rabh fá n-a
gcoinne acht teaglach an toighe.


teaghlach
Máirtín Ó Direáin: Feamainn Bhealtaine

2 - 2 as 2: abairt 2692, ag toiseacht ar lch 109, líne 35

Ba mhór an áis chun suáilceas is soilbhreas a leathadh i
dteaghlach ar bith an tine.

Ach flúirse samplaí ó Chelt; ach is léir gur líon tí seachas gaol atá i gceist:

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&client=google-coop&cof=AH%3Aleft%3BCX%3ACELT% 2520Search%2520Engine%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fcoop%2Fimages%2Fgoogle _custom_search_sm.gif%3BLH%3A55%3BLP%3A1%3BGFNT%3A%23666666%3BDIV%3A%23cccccc%3B &adkw=AELymgUylUZJrnNYMivDb7m7FuWxBBd8-z5Uwt6KtqPLCIohy6MhqPyJ0EHiri1sZTkFWsE0dv aHvSq1iM_BJp0qGCBtvmuPFGiYKv-E-Cpu5KvYI4zlXhS5EbWrYs5NYpONDfD3NKghXPxNGEzthHQOpe fWqkOm3IG2ZsfbEymkv62QqjWtf17UPM_ia6mjntM3c0u2_neg&q=teaghlach&btnG=Search&cx=01 5080749438202091167%3Aj3njhim80qu

quote:

are you indicating that at one time "tuismitheoir" was a valid term?

Yes, I was reading an article about the legal side of writing Bunreacht in Irish. There is word "parent" in the English version (and you know that although Irish text is proclaimed to be primary - document was drafted in English and then translated), so it was very difficult to translate it adequately. Word "tuismitheoir" was an obscure word by 20s of the 20th century not known to any traditional native speaker. It was picked up by linguists from some medieval manuscripts. And I suspect the word meant not "parent" exactly but "forebearer". Still, it was the best word Rahilly could come up with.

Tá "tuismightheoir" agus "tuiste" araon ag Dinneen, leis an gciall "parent".

Ach tagaim le Róman gur téarma theicniúl/dlí a bhí ann, agus gur "muintir" atá sa chaint.

Maith an fear thú, a Aonghuis

Focal déanach? An bhfuil 'mo thuismitheoirí' ceart nó micheart?

Tá

An bheirt acu?

níl, Tá 'mo thuismitheoirí' ceart

mo leithscéal

Focal déanach: mo mhuintear, unless you are writing a law on parental care.

Tá sé agam. GRMA.