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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 194 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 03:02 am: |
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So... I'm given to understand that "buidéal fíona" is the term for "bottle of wine." Can somebody explain why it wouldn't be "buidéal fhíona," with fíona lenited? I thought that the genetive case required lenition where possible... Thanks! |
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Bearn
Member Username: Bearn
Post Number: 134 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 04:50 am: |
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Could be not leniting f for fear of making the word too different. However, I never got a definite question as to why the lenition suspension can occur like this; gender is a factor, but not here if it is masculine Bi-labial inside ®
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 1730 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:25 am: |
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Consider in English how we can use adjectives to describe a noun: big cabinet We can also use a noun to describe a noun: medicine cabinet In the Irish language, when a noun is used to describe another a noun, (e.g. in the case of "medicine" above), the describer noun has to be put in the genitive case. Something like: medicinal cabinet (And before anyone says anything, yes I realise that people say "medicine cabinet", and yes I realise that one could argue that "medicinal" is an adjective rather than a noun in the genitive). Anyway, in Irish, as far as I'm aware, these adjectives and nouns get exactly the same treatment. The use of a séimhiú on these descriptive words is dependant on the gender of the noun which they describe: fear mór (big man) bean mhór (big woman) In the case of "buidéal fíona", it's perfectly correct because "buidéal" is masculine. What's funny though, is that when a noun is put in the genitive, the rule is flipped on its head so that men take a séimhiú and women don't: fear mór bean mhór ainm an fhir mhóir ainm na mná móire an buidéal fíona bliain an bhuidéil fhíona -- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú -- Muna mbíonn téarma Gaoluinne agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 195 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 06:48 pm: |
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My brane hurtz. |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 1735 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 08:40 pm: |
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Yup it's a right to learn. . . there was a time when I wondered how the hell native speakers did this off-the-cuff but ya get the hang of it soon enough. (Message edited by admin on July 06, 2007) -- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú -- Muna mbíonn téarma Gaoluinne agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.
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