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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (July-August) » Archive through July 06, 2007 » Would this translation be correct? « Previous Next »

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Shannon
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Username: Shannon

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 06:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have a small quote I tried to translate, but I'm probbably a bit off. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. GRMA



With God, all things are possible.

Le Dia, féideartha rud an uile.

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Pádraig
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Post Number: 539
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 07:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá an uile ní dodhéanta ag Dia.

This may be a bit confusing because in context the emphasis is on the word, impossible (dodhéanta.) "With man it is impossible, but with God nothing is impossible."

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1700
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 10:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The English phrase is quite ambiguous so it's a little dodgy dragging it straight into Irish without some prior clarification, but nonetheless I like the sound of Pádraig's offer.

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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Abigail
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Post Number: 368
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 10:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Tá an uile ní indéanta ag Dia" might be better! If I'm not mistaken the version above says "All things are impossible with God."

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1703
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 10:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Wups I didn't even catch that myself :-O

sodhéanta - CAN be done
dodhéanta - CAN'T be done

I'm not quite sure what the difference is between "indéanta" and "sodhéanta".

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 3137
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 11:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

indéanta = doable
sodhéanta = easily doable/done

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5762
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 06:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá an uile Níl aon ní dodhéanta ag Dia

Ach freagra na ceiste:

Le Dia, tá gach ní indéanta.

But I would prefer:

Le cabhair Dé, tá gach ní indéanta.

With God's help, everything is possible.


"Is giorra cabhair Dé ná an doras"

(Message edited by aonghus on June 29, 2007)

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 540
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 01:59 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ceart go leor. It was a spelling error.

Tá an uile ní dodhéanta ag Dia. Should have been sodhéanta

BTW: couldn't find sodhéanta in the dictionary. What's the sceál on sod vs. dod here?

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 541
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Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 02:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Aonghus, a chara,

Tá an uile Níl aon ní dodhéanta ag Dia

I thought so too, at first. But take a look at Matha 19:26 (An Bíobla Naofa)

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Peadar (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 02:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hey! Let's not reinvent the wheel! With God, all things are possible: is a quote from Matthew 19:26 - and the Bible has already been translated...

In the 17th century version it is:

Ní bhfuil so ar chumas do na dáoinibh, achd atá gach uile nídh ar chumas do Dhía.

So: putting it into modern Irish:

Níl so ar chumas dosna daoinibh, ach tá gach uile ní ar chumas do Dhia.

(ar chumas: within the power, capability)

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 5769
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 02:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I leagan Má Nuad:

"Tá sé seo dodhéanta ag daoine, ach tá an uile ní sodhéanta ag Dia"

so- [réimír]
furasta a; maith, dea-.

do- [réimír]
nach féidir, an-deacair ar fad (do-aimsithe, do-aitheanta); droch-, dona (dobhuille).

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 542
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 05:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Buíochas, a chara. Now after we memorize the whole blasted dictionary, we can look forward to the prefixes and the suffixes and and the joy of making our own words like the Germans. Itzkunfuzenoffen.

Things that drive the neophyte mad: do = deacair agus droch agus dona ach so = dea. Arrragh!

Here's a thought: D is for do which means dumb.
S is for so which means smart.

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 75
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 07:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"we can look forward to the prefixes and the suffixes and and the joy of making our own words like the Germans"

In fact prefixing and suffixing is very logical and easy to use. I have been looking at Mongolian, Korean, and Greenlandic. The latter I find easy to memorize as there is logical correspondence between morpheme and construct meaning.

The problem with Irish is the fact of fusion of morphemes plus time changes and collapse of cases, among a lot of other things -the form is at times a bit of an omlette

don't read this

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 543
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Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 08:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá sin agat ceart.

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 544
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 09:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ceart go leor. It was a spelling error.

And I think I know how I got lost down that road. I was trying to make sense of the quotation while assuming that "ni" in the context was some sort of negative particle. I was trying to squeeze it into meaning "nothing" (is impossible with God.)

Apparently "ní" also means "thing." Thus "an uile ní" = "all things" (are possible with God.)

Which brings me to another question. Why isn't the plural form used? Níthe?

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Marianna (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 11:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Because gach uile means each and every so the noun following must be singular?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5777
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 05:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

sin é. One doesn't say every things is possible with God!

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 546
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Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 11:13 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

maith go leor agus go raibh maith agatsa.

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Odwyer
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Post Number: 244
Registered: 05-2006


Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 10:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Agatsa?

Prepositions can have emphatic forms?

Ceartaígí mo chuid Ghaeilge, le bhur dtoil!

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 78
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 11:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yes coz your empasising the person.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 549
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 11:14 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá sé 4:12 a chlog ar BAC. Cá bhfuil gach uile dhuine?

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Odwyer
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Post Number: 245
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 11:46 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat!

What's BAC?

Ceartaígí mo chuid Ghaeilge, le bhur dtoil!

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 79
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 11:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Linn Dhubh

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Pádraig
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Post Number: 550
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 12:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

BAC = Baile Átha Cliath = Dublin

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 80
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 12:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does anyone know why Dubh was used prefix-wise rather than after as in normal attributive adjectives?

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 81
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 12:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does anyone know why Dubh (in Dubhlinn) was used prefix-wise rather than after as in normal attributive adjectives?

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Mac_léinn
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Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 652
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Also what does "Cliath" mean? Feicim in Ó Dónáill's Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla:

cliath, f. 1 Wattled, latticed, frame; hurdle. 2. (a) Phalanx, (b) crowd, shoal. [etc.]

The answer will probably be some "Vikingism."

Ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scoilbe.

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Bearn
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Post Number: 82
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 01:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hurdles -some form of architecture for river crossing, apparently; "Crossing a hurdle"

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Pádraig
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Post Number: 551
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 02:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Also what does "Cliath" mean?

I think it has something to do with fish spawning.

Dubh Linn instead of Linn Dhubh? Perhaps it's simply the Anglicized word order = Black Pool.

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Pádraig
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Post Number: 552
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 02:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Beginning in the 9th and 10th century, there were two settlements where the modern city stands. The Viking settlement of about 841 was known as Dyflin, from the Irish Duiblinn (or "Black Pool", referring to a dark tidal pool where the River Poddle entered the Liffey on the site of the Castle Gardens at the rear of Dublin Castle), and a Gaelic settlement,Áth Cliath ("ford of hurdles") was further up river. The Celtic settlement's name is still used as the Irish name of the modern city, while the modern English name came from the Viking settlement of Dyflin, which derived its name from the Irish Duiblinn

Go mba seacht bhfearr a bheas tú bliain ó inniu.

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Mac_léinn
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Post Number: 653
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 02:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's a definition of Baile Átha Cliath from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baile_Atha_Cliath

quote:

The common name for the city in Modern Irish is 'Baile Átha Cliath' ('The Settlement of the Ford of the Reed Hurdles'), which refers to the settlement, founded in 988 by High King Mael Sechnaill II, that adjoined the town of Dubh Linn proper at the Black Pool. It seems also that the seafaring Vikings and Normans thought of the place in terms of a pool deep enough for harbouring ships, while the Gaelic speakers saw the place in terms of a ford over a major river.



Ó Dónáill indicates that áth can mean 1. Ford or 2. Spawning bed (in river)

Ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scoilbe.

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Mac_léinn
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 02:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Phádraig, looks like I was typing/researching while you already posted the meaning of Baile Átha Cliath. Gabh mo leithscéal.

Ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scoilbe.

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 83
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 04:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"while the modern English name came from the Viking settlement of Dyflin, which derived its name from the Irish Duiblinn"

Dubhlinn -->doolin
Duibhlinn -->duvlin; (devoice) duvlinn -->duflin

Irish (Dubhlinn; Duibhlinn)-->Norse (Diflinn)--> English (Difilin)

Norse and Icelandic tend towards voicedlessness in medial position, and Irish tends towards making continuents out of stops in same, but English has duBlin, like the original Goidelc language had (pre old Irish). Are Dubliners time travellers?

Now it looks more plausible that the modern English form was due to scribes writing Dublin, by ignoring the ponc in the Irish form, and it filtering down over time. The Hiberno English could not have been from the Norse then, but rather from an original beurocratic form.

Funny how people will believe or say something without any logic applied. Almost all Irish in wikipedia is bunkum. Take the artcile on the President -some of the remarks on how to address the person were way off

(Message edited by bearn on July 01, 2007)

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Aonghus
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 04:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The ford would have been on the important road, Slí Chualann, from Teamhair to the south.

(Message edited by aonghus on July 01, 2007)

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Daithí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 04:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The 'bh' is pronounced with both lips in Irish. So it might have sounded like a 'b' rather that like a 'v' to the English.

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Aonghus
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 04:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

From the Statute of Kilkenny, 1367 (In Norman French)

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/F300001-001/index.html

lez Viscountz et les Seneschalx de Loueth Mid. Trim Dyvelin Kildare Cathirlgh Kilkeny Weys Waterford et Tipperar vienent pour lour accomptes rendre devant Treasorer ou Barones des issues

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Marianna (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 04:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hurdle - a portable panel of wattled withes or stakes used for enclosing land or livestock.
Withe - Branch or twig.
Wattle - Poles interwoven with slender branches or withes. Poles laid on a roof to support thatch.

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 5793
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 05:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

From the book of Leinster

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G800011E/

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G800011E/text043.html

39400] Tancatar iar sain cóic longa & tri fichit co Dublind Atha Cliath. {MS folio 309b 20} & ra hindrit Lagin co Margi leo. & Mag m Breg. Tucsat Dál Riatai cath don longissein Uair rachuatar lám chlé ri Herend fathúaid ar milliud Lagen & Breg. Ra marbad sin chathsin Eoganán mac Oengusa rí Dáil Riatai.

Perhaps it was Gaelic scribes who first created the form Dublin!

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Peadar (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 10:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Firstly, I don't think Dublin means "black pool". I think linn is a Viking word. See Tallinn, capital of Estonia, the name means "Danish town". The fact that linn means pool in Irish is neither here nor there, and Wikipedia is not a citable source. The town means "black town", pronounced according to RAhilly D(w)ee-linn in late Leinster Irish.

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Dennis
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Post Number: 3147
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 11:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Does anyone know why Dubh (in Dubhlinn) was used prefix-wise rather than after as in normal attributive adjectives?

Ní hansa. Old Irish made far greater use of substantive compounds than the modern dialects do. Most adjectives could precede their noun and form a compound with it, much like "sean + focal > seanfhocal" in today's Irish. "Dublinn" (to use the OI spelling) was a perfectly ordinary way saying "black pool".

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Aubrey (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 11:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

We're WAY off subject

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Dennis
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Post Number: 3148
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 11:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Firstly, I don't think Dublin means "black pool".

That puts you at odds with all the authorities I've read: the standard dictionaries of Old and Middle Irish, for example:

DIL (s.v. dub, D (ii) 427.61 et seq,) : dublind dark liquid ... black pool: ar dublind Brea ... tar duiblinn imm Bae... also as n.loc. names of rivers, later name of Áth Cliath Dublin...

LEIA (s.v. dub, D 211) dub-lind « liquide noir », LU 7705 (TBDD § 128), aussi nom de lieu (Dublin).

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Dennis
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Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 11:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Maidir leis an ainm "Áth Cliath", seo agaibh an míniú a léigh mé áit éigin tamall ó shin:

Bhí áth ann, ceart go leor, agus cuireadh cuaillí go daingean i leaba na haibhne, trasna an átha, le cliath eatarthu os cionn an uisce, le go mbeadh daoine in ann a meáchan a chur leis nuair a bhí sruth na haibhne an-láidir. Ní droichead a bhí ann, ach saghas lámhráille.

(Message edited by dennis on July 01, 2007)

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Bearn
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Post Number: 85
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Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 07:14 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"The 'bh' is pronounced with both lips in Irish. So it might have sounded like a 'b' rather that like a 'v' to the English."

I doubt this given the clear difference between b and bh. I know a place called 'Drumcowra' where the w is pronounced as or near to a bi-labial fricative, so could be a diphthong or bilabial (drumcaura, or drumcabhra). D4 natives who live there hear our local (and people with a more southern Ulster) pronunciation and their (horrible) renderance is like a rounded Conemara á (like Drumcóra, but there is no non IPA symbol for it) as they do neither sounds natively.

All sorts of things are possible, I suppose, but by the time of the Norse b and bh were clearly different -Dubh is not considered 'dub' by English today, more like doo or doow, and the bh is like w, a native English sound, so I am very skeptical of the wiki explanation

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