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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (May-June) » Archive through June 29, 2007 » Guide to Relative Clauses « Previous Next »

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Peadar (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 09:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

This is based on Standard Irish/Connaught Irish

Direct relative clauses

a) positive

Relative clauses – who, which, that – expressed by the direct relative particle “a” (which lenites all verb forms, except tá, which has the special relative form atá).

Feicim an fear atá sásta: I see the man who is satisfied.
Feicim an fear a mhúineann Gaeilge: I see the man who teaches Irishh

This is a direct relative clause because the subject/object of the first clause is straightforwardly the subject/object of the subordinate clause.

Note: in Connaught Irish, but no in Standard Irish, the present habitual and the future both add –s to form the relative: a bhíonns, a bheas. Note also that beidh becomes bheas as the –idh is replaced by –(e)as.

Feicim an fear a bheas sásta: I see the man who will be satisfied.

These same rules apply to other verbs also. But note that combined forms – forms where the pronoun is built into the verb – do not add –s. In other words, a form like “thigim”, a present habitual, does not add –s (it is analogous to bím rather than bíonn sé). .

Tá an fear a thigim go deas: The man who I understand is nice.

Note: Ulster Irish also has relative verb forms, but not exactly the same as the Connaught ones: In Ulster: an bhean a ghlanas, in Connaught: a bhean a ghlananns.

b) negative

Negative direct relative clauses have the negative relative particle nach, which eclipses and is followed by the dependent form of the verb where this is one.

An fear nach bhfuil sásta: a man who is not content.
An fear nach mbíonn sásta: a man who is not normally content.

c) double direct relative

In some cases the object of the main clause is the object of a a 2nd verb as well as the subject of a verb in the final subordinate clause, eg where the 2nd verb is of the sílim type, which normally takes go/nach. In this case a double direct relative needs two relative particles.

The normal clause is: sílim go mbeadh an fear sásta, I think the man would be content.
The single relative is: feicim an fear a bheadh sásta, I see the man who would be content.

These are combined in a nested double relative: feicim an fear a shílim a bheadh sásta, I see the man who I think would be content.

d) implied copula

Some usages seem to imply an omitted copula, particularly with interrogatives and some adverbs.

• cé/céard/cén (=cé + an)

cén bhean a bhí anseo inné? what woman was here yesterday? (implies a copula: what woman is it who was here yesterday?)

• chomh luath is, and conjunctions containing “is”

bím sásta chomh luath is a fheicim an dochtúr, I am normally satisfied as soon as I see the doctor (implies: I am normally satisfied as soon as it is that I see the doctor)

• mar

tá Cáit go díreach mar a bhí sí inné, Kate is exactly as she was yesterday (implies: Kate is exactly as it was that she was yesterday)

• nuair

beidh sise anseo nuair a bheas tusa ansin, she will be here when you will be there (implies: she will be here when it is that you will be there)

Indirect relative clauses

a) overview

Indirect relative clauses – on whom, for which, etc – are expressed by the indirect relative particle “a” (which eclipses all verb forms and is followed by the dependent form of the verb where available).

I see the table which the book is on = I see the table upon which is the book: feicim an bord a bhfuil an leabhar air, or a more literary form is feicim an bord ar a bhfuil an leabhar.

This indirect construction is needed in the following types of sentences:
a) where there is a preposition in the subordinate clause (as above)
b) a clause with “whose”, which = of whom, and so is basically the same as in a). This is known as a “genitive relation”.
Eg the man whose son is here: an fear a bhfuil a mhac anseo
c) a time clause: that is the time when (ie, the time at which) Cáit was here: sin é an t-am a raibh Cáit anseo.
d) a reason: that is why (ie, the reason for which) Cáit will be here: sin é an fáth a mbeidh Cáit anseo.
e) the word áit: that is where (ie, the place at which) Cáit is: sin é an áit a bhfuil Cáit.

Apparently, “an uair” can be followed either by the direct or indirect relative: an uair a bhí Cáit anseo or an uair a raibh Cáit anseo.

b) double indirect relative

Where the object of the verb in the main clause is also the object of a preposition in the subordinate clause, a nested indirect relative clause is needed.

An bhfuil an leabhar ar an mbord a sílim a bhfuil sé air? Is the book on the table I think it is on?

Distinguishing direct and indirect relatives

Note: in standard Irish at any rate, some distinctions can be made merely by the use of a direct or an indirect relative clause. Notice these two:
• mar+direct relative means “as”: tá Cáit go díreach mar a bhí sí inné: Kate is exactly as she was yesterday.
• mar+indirect relative means “where”: fan mar a bhfuil tú, stay where you are!

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Thomas Leigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 09:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Pheadair (is that the right form for the Vocative?)

Go raibh maith agat -- that's really helpful!

I'm particularly pleased to learn that Ulster Irish has a relative form of the verb. I was a bit worried that when trying to speak Irish I would unthinkingly stick -as's on the ends of verbs (due to Scottish Gaelic influence) and create forms that didn't exist in Irish. So I'm relieved that I don't have to worry about that! ;-)

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1743
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 01:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yeah, the relative form is the same as in Scottish Gaelic.
In the present tense, the ending -(e)anns isn't unknown in Ulster, according to An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Uladh.

For some verbs there's not relative form, like for "thig" (to come, in the present tense): is é an fear a thig achan lá.

A Thomais, saoilidh mi gum bu mhath dhut an leabhar sin a cheannachd. Gheibh thu an seo e: http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=144 1&osCsid=c054ade8926caf4763443bb0b7e90e1c

Tha mi gu bhith cinnteach gum faigh thu freagairt na mòrchodach dhe do chèistean ann. Dh'fhoghlaim mise cuid mhath dhe mo Ghàidhlig Ultaich ann.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

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Angmar
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Username: Angmar

Post Number: 28
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 01:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hey thanks Peadair!

I'm presently study the relative clause with the book Learning Irish. I will print this out in the hope that it might put a bit more sense into Ó Siadhail's sometimes lacking explanations.

It would be a great idea if everyone could contribute to creating an online Irish grammar on this site. However, maybe this is a bit too much of a grandiose idea. I'm not in charge after all of the Daltaí so, it's just a suggestion.

Slán!

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Thomas Leigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 03:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Lughaigh, a charaid,

Mòran taing airson a' cheangail -- dh'òrdaich mi lethbhreac!

Tòmas



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