mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (July-August) » Archive through July 06, 2007 » How do you pronounce « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stoopid
Member
Username: Stoopid

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 01:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In ainm an Athar, agus a Mhic, agus an Spioraid Naomh

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 53
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 02:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

How would I pronouce it?

[ən̥̥ æn̥mˊ ən̪ˠ ɑːɾ ɪsˠ ə w̃ˊɪkʲ ɪsˠ ə sˠpˊɤɾˠɪd̪ˠ n̪ˠɯß]

Thank you for asking

Is it live or is it Memorex?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1703
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 04:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Should be "Spioraid Naoimh", i think.

[ɪ ˈnˠaɲɪm´ ə ˈn̪ˠahəɾ, ɔgˠəsˠ ə ˈβ´ɪc, ɔgˠəsˠ ə ˈsp´ɪɾɪdʲ ˈnˠɨːβ´]

In ahn-yim uh nah-hur, oh-guss uh vick, oh-guss uh spih-rij neev.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 629
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 04:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Lughaidh, I know that many of us have our own favorite LPA (local phonetic alphabet), but shouldn't the "oh's" that you show above really be "uh's?" I think most, if not all LPA's would have us pronounce "oh" as a long "o" sound as found in "boat."

Ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scoilbe.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stoopid
Member
Username: Stoopid

Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 04:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ən̥̥ æn̥mˊ ən̪ˠ ɑːɾ ɪsˠ ə w̃ˊɪkʲ ɪsˠ ə sˠpˊɤɾˠɪd̪ˠ n̪ˠɯß ?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 54
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 07:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ɯfNJǷȄ ßˠDZɤəc ʲƣˠɾ ȭɤʲˠȭ ɓɗʲɑȳ Ρβȭ!

Would you buy an ice-cream from this man? Well... he's got such an honest face, so yes, I probably would!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Riona
Member
Username: Riona

Post Number: 1183
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 07:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A BhRN,

You're getting a bit rowdy lately. Is there a particular reason?

Beir bua agus beannacht

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 55
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 07:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'll calm down, promise.

Meet my inner child.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1705
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 07:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Would "oh" be long, for you? I thought it would be short... Excuse me, English isn't my mothertongue. How would you write a short o, then?

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 630
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 09:30 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Would "oh" be long, for you? Yes, at least to me. "Oh" looks like the expletive we would say when something dawns on us; we would say "Oh, I see" or something to that effect.

How would you write a short o, then?

That's a good question - how to write a stand-alone, short "o." In IPA it's a cinch, but in my New Joisey LPA (Local Phonetic Alphabet). I suppose I would simply show an "o" then followed by a note "like the 'o' in "son," as I see used in Foclóir Scoile.

Ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scoilbe.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Róman
Member
Username: Róman

Post Number: 837
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

an "o" then followed by a note "like the 'o' in "son"



Isn't "o" in "son" pronounced the same way as "u" in "sun"? In that case that sound has nothing to do with Irish "o". I would even risk stating that there is no such sound as Irish "o" in BBC English. The sound would appear in "more" if you managed to cut short the long vowel in that word.

Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 631
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 02:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Isn't "o" in "son" pronounced the same way as "u" in "sun"? In that case that sound has nothing to do with Irish "o".



Yeah, I think you're right as it depends on whether one pronounces "son" and "sun" differently. Darn, this LPA business is tricky, isn't it?

The initial point here is how to pronounce the "a" in "agus," which may simply be the schwa, ə

Ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scoilbe.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1082
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 02:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

AAHguss would be my lpa choice.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1710
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 05:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The "a" of agus is never stressed ("gus" is stressed). The a is mostly pronounced like a u sound. Uh-guss. [ɔˈgˠəsˠ]

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc_Ó_haodha
Member
Username: Maidhc_Ó_haodha

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2007


Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 05:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What is the latest LPA, IPA, or otherwise thinking on the pronunciation of the Irish word for man, "fear"?

Maidhc Ó hAodha

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1711
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 07:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Fear is pronounced kinda like "fahr", which is [ɸ´aɾ] in IPA.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Róman
Member
Username: Róman

Post Number: 840
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 03:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

I think you're right as it depends on whether one pronounces "son" and "sun" differently.



Does Mid-western variety of American English (CNN English) distinguish between those two words?

quote:

this LPA business is tricky



Knowing that there are some Kiwis and Aussies around I would be brave to state that this LPA business is silly, unhelpfull and even dangerous. Never heard of American tourists trying "jia gwitch" in Ireland and getting confused as nobody understands what 'gwitch' is?

quote:

fear



Try making unnatural smile while saying "far" and you should arrive at correct pronunciation. But 'r' has to be rolled.

Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Abigail
Member
Username: Abigail

Post Number: 352
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 03:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does Mid-western variety of American English (CNN English) distinguish between those two words?
No. Some of the New England dialects do though.

Try making unnatural smile while saying "far" and you should arrive at correct pronunciation.
Mo cheol go deo thú! That's a great explanation.

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Róman
Member
Username: Róman

Post Number: 842
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 03:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Actually I was always amuzed why tutors give up on trying to teach English speakers broad/slender distinction. It is tricky but it is possible.

This "unnatural smile" technique helps with all labial sounds - b,p, f, m, mh - so you have 5 sounds already. If you study Conamarian Irish then slender [t] is pronounced like [ts] (English word - cenTS), slender [d] - [dz] (English word wooDS). So basically the only really tricky sound for Americans should be [r`]. I don't know how to describe it.

(Message edited by Róman on June 23, 2007)

Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Abigail
Member
Username: Abigail

Post Number: 353
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 04:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

That, and broad dh/gh...

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Róman
Member
Username: Róman

Post Number: 843
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 05:24 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

broad dh/gh



I don't think it is too difficult to find a Greek speaker around in America. Interestingly enough in Modern Greek letter gamma is pronounced exactly as "gh" in Irish - broad as "gh", slender as "y" (English one).

Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Janet Healy (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 11:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I wondered if anyone might be able to help me with the pronounciation of this word

"Samhlaiocht" (fada on i)

At present I pronounce it as
"Sow-lee-uct" from what little gaelige i have retained from school....does that phonetic sound right?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1691
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 01:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

That's exactly how I pronunce it, assuming "sow" rhymes with "cow".

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 632
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 02:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Isn't there a "ch" sound, as in Bach, at the end of the word?

From Foclóir Scóile:

samlaíocht sauli: (ə)xt

where i: is pronounced like the "e" in me

ə is the schwa, pronounced as the "a" in "about."

and x is pronounced like the "ch" in the composer's name "Bach."

Ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scoilbe.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1720
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 10:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In Gweedore (Donegal) I think we'd say [ˈsˠɑ͂wlˠiar̥t̪ˠ].

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 64
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 11:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

This LPA stuff reminds me of a colouring book with a parrot who has 4 colours (red, blue, green, yellow). It is 'colur by numbrs' book, and so 1, 2, 3, ,4 refer to the needed ones. However, when you got to see what colour for 1, you get in the Irish edition a explanation like 'the colour of the Augnagarty GAA team on a hot day' or in the Ozzie one ('like the seats in Telstra stadium when no one is there). And so on. You are in America. You can;t colour in the book. Period.

The result of all this, is that since Irish spelling follows pronouciation (but due to the bilayering of consonants requires contingency), people fail to get a feeling for the language's sounds. If I were a betting man, I'd say a lot of people look at 'canadh' and see 'kanad', or 'samhradh' as 'samrad' etc.

If you look at the IPA of this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Phonology

then on can begin to see where English can be a start point for Irish.

Start in alphabet consonants, as the vowels are hopeless for most Dubliners and Americans (English people seem to get them better for some reason -must be the tuning in for class in people's voices...)

b: broad like bw (pout); slender (grin with pursed lips), add [j] before back vowel
bh: broad like w in water; voice the slender b (v but only done with lips, no teeth)

c: broad like c before a u (cub or similar for your dialect); slender: dehiss the h in 'human'
ch: broad: make a h in a continous stream like 'hhhhhh' and go to do c (like cu). You will notice the tongue come up and stop the stream of air like a valve. That was c, and c was a stop consonant. Now instead of stopping the air, dont let the tongue stop the air compleatly, but have it come near till a hissing sound is made. That is ch
ch: slender: h in human

d: broad: see deep broad l instruction and then make a d sound; slender: make y sound in 'yes'. Now go and make a stop sound ('dyes/djes' as it were).

f: broad like fw (pout); slender (grin with pursed lips), add [j] before back vowel
fh: zero always

g: broad: make a h in a continous stream like 'hhhhhh' and go to do c (like goo). You will notice the tongue come up and stop the stream of air like a valve. That was g, and g was a stop consonant. Now instead of stopping the air, dont let the tongue stop the air compleatly, but have it come near till a hissing sound is made. That is gh

h: just a breath of air

l: deep broad: get some water. Drink, but hold water in mouth. Now bring tip if tongue up to teeth. Try to hold the water in the mouth. To do this, the tongue edge must fan out. Practice doing this with no water. this is the broad l/d/n/t/s/z dental r! light broad: the thick l found in posh British English in words like law/'ball' (in cases where they bother to pronounce the final l, that is). An alternative is to l-ize the little broad r, but this is not always easy an can become like the slender weak l; slender weak l: plain l as in 'bill'

m: broad like mw (pout); slender (grin with pursed lips), add [j] before back vowel
mh: same as bh, but more nasal. Difference not important any more

n: deep broad: see l deep broad; light broad: the thick l found in posh British English in words like law/'ball' (in cases where they bother to pronounce the final l, that is). An alternative is to l-ize the little broad r, but this is not always easy an can become like the slender weak l; slender weak l: plain l as in 'bill'
ng: broad: like ng in 'sung' only a bit more nasalily; slender: like the n in the 'neet' 'neet' swamp people in Monty Python's Holy Grail, but made ike the y in 'yes' and nasalised. Alternativly, like the y in yes, but nasalised

p: broad like pw (pout); slender (grin with pursed lips), add [j] before back vowel
ph: as for f, broad and slender

r: broad long: trill like in Spanish; broad short: the same as 'dd' in ladder for Americans but have resonance like u;
r: slender long: (here for compleatness -longer more zeddy form of slender r); slender short: make the word 'modern' as if spelt 'modren'. Now do not let the tongue hop back from the alvolar ridge, but hold and 'rasp' it there. The effect is to create one of the slender irish rs, a type of 'tap and rasp' with the tip of the tongue

s: broad: see broad deep l; slender: y in yes and and make it hiss like s

t: broad: see broad d instruction and then turn off voice box; slender: see slender d, devoice
th: h or f depends on dialect; slender: h or like h in human (slender ch)

v: broad: as w. Slender as slender bh

z: broad: see broad deep l, and voice; slender, see slender s and voice

don't read this

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Shannonorama
Member
Username: Shannonorama

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 03:26 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quick question!

how do pronounce............

Suaimhneas? (Irish for 'peace' - the inner type, right?)

thanks very much

Shannon

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 122
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 04:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think ‘suanas’ in Munster; also ‘suavanas’. I’d say ‘sooivras’

Bi-labial inside ®

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1762
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 07:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In Ulster: [ˈsˠuˑəβ´ɲəsˠ], kinda "soo-uv-nyuss"

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm



©Daltaí na Gaeilge