Now and again people have questions to ask, but think starting a new thread is a bit excessive just for the one little question. That's why I've started this thread, so that people can fire quick questions and get quick answers. I'd appreciate if everyone would number their questions so people know which one is being answered. I'll get the ball rolling:

1. In the way that Munster people say "dos na", do they also say "des na"?

2. Do you use the genitive case after "Cén cineál, cén sórt"? "Cén sort rud ba mhaith leat?" or "Cén sórt ruda ba mhaith leat?"?

The next question a person asks will be number 3.

(Yes, the thread title should be "ceisteanna" with an "a" at the end)

1) Yes, they do.
2) Yes in general, but for whatever reason it doesn't seem as common with "rud." I'd say "cén sórt oibre" for sure though.

Question 3: Where does the "ní" in "ní mé" (= "I wonder", more or less) come from? What part of speech is it, even?

Possibly an explanation for "Cén sort rud" would be that it's always followed by "a" as in:

Cén sort rud a chonaic tú?

Maybe people got sick of the double "a" and made it a single "a", and then maybe this trend just leaked through to:

Cén sort rud ba mhaith leat?

Good idea Fear na mbrog, this happens to me a lot.

Ceist 4. When saying Is maith liom or ni maith liom, do you pronounce the i and the o in liom or does it just make one sound like in the name Siobhan?

Beir bua agus beannacht

quote:

1. In the way that Munster people say "dos na", do they also say "des na"?

Yes, mar a dúirt Abigail. Ach ní dóigh liom go ndéantar aon idirdhealú orthu sa chaint; mar "dosna" a deirtear iad araon, go bhfios dom.

quote:

Question 3: Where does the "ní" in "ní mé" (= "I wonder", more or less) come from? What part of speech is it, even?

An-cheist go deo! Shíl mé gur scríobh Tomás de Bhaldraithe rud éigin faoi seo i gceann de na hirisleabhair léannta (Éigse?), ach níl mé in ann aon tagairt dó seo a fháil ar an idirlíon.

Dála an scéil, an bhfuil tú thall san Iorua anois?

Dosna vs Desna.

In Ciarraí the preposition "de" has fully merged with "do", so there is only "dosna". In Cléire and Múscraí they are separate. I don't know about An Rinn.

By the same token - fésna, aigesna, ósna, roimis na are said.

Cén sort, cén cineál

In Munster "Cén saghas" is said usually, sometimes "Cén sórd". I don't know about genitive as most oftenly I have seen this used in "Cén saghas duine", so it is impossible to say if it is genitive

Ní mé

Ana-shuimiúil, a Abigail. Do you use "ní fheadar" with the same meaning in Conamara?

An Rinn - Seperate.

Ceist 5 ó Rómán: breis eolais on bhFoclóir Beag
feadair [ainm briathartha][uireasach]
(iarsma de bhriathar).


an bhfeadraís (an bhfuil a fhios agat?).
ní fheadar (níl, ní raibh, a fhios agam (ní fheadar cá bhfuil, cá raibh, sé)).
ní fheadramar (níl, ní raibh, a fhios againn).

---

Go bhfios dom, tá n'fheadar ar fáil gach áit.

"Ceist 4. When saying Is maith liom or ni maith liom, do you pronounce the i and the o in liom or does it just make one sound like in the name Siobhan?"

They might have once been the same sound, O Quiggin suggets like the vowel in Hiberno English 'sir' (sur, sur!)

Generally, you can pronounce liom as 'lum', with the l single plain/slender


What I do it strive to pronounce the consonants correctly, and the vowel fall into shape

I myself pronounce "liom" as "lum" (i.e. plum without the p).

By the way, Ríona, a lot of the time in Irish, vowels are placed in words for no other reason than to slenderise or broaden a consonant, particularly the letter "i". That's why we have "fear" instead of "far".

In Donegal, "liom" is pronounced "lahm".

A general rule is that a consonant has its quality signalled by what vowel is written around it. The first vowel after the consonant tells you the quality and here is why:

It is like there is an invisible unwritten vowel prior to the first letter and after it

[slender vowel]fe-ar[back vowel]

(e)fear(a)

The next rule is that 'ea' must be pronounced as 'ah'

Together such rules tell you it is slender f, ah, tap r


If there was a fada, you would pronounce the long vowel 'féar'/fair or 'feár'/fawr


In fact, and thanks for making me think of this, (as I said, I only think of the consonants not even noticing the vowels), we should be told what the diagraph 'ea' 'ao' 'io' etc stand for alone, plus, the spelling rule. You can pretty much reconstruct the original vowel/s (like ao) by say doing the orignal consonants in say 'saol'

Aonghuis,

"ní fheadar" means "I don't know" usually, but there is other usage as well. See this example:

Cé leis an leabhar so, ní fheadar?

It does not mean that you "don't know" whose book it is. It rather corresponds to English "I wonder whose book it is"

"liom" is pronunced [l`um] all over Munster. FnB - "plum" at least in the version I have learned is pronunced like "plam" in Irish spelling, not "plum" you are hinting. Or it is other Hiberno-English development? This is the reason I think it is silly to compare Irish sounds to "ah", "oh" and the likes because those English sounds are different for different English speakers.

I meant "plum" as in the purple fruit.

I meant "plum" as in the purple fruit.

(p)lum is not so different from liom

quote:

"liom" is pronunced [l`um] all over Munster. FnB - "plum" at least in the version I have learned is pronunced like "plam" in Irish spelling, not "plum" you are hinting. Or it is other Hiberno-English development?

Another example for the need for a multi-LPA (Local Phonetic Alphabet) compendium, one that includes cross references to as many LPA's as possible.

The alternative would be to spend an hour or two learning the simplified IPA used to represent Irish pronunciations as Róman did above, but that would be too straightforward.

The simplied IPA used in scrúdúanna na gcánúintí is a great place to start

Scríobh Rómán

quote:

"ní fheadar" means "I don't know" usually, but there is other usage as well. See this example:

Tá's agam. Ní mise a scríobh an foclóir!

Ní raibh fúm ach a thabhairt le tuiscint go bhfuil n'fheadar inglactha gach áit.

Cén fath ar athraigh siad an focal 'ocus' go 'agus' in áit 'ogus'? Agus cén fath nach litrímid 'ag' mar 'eg'?

Maidir le "ag", tá mé ’déanamh go bhfuaimnítí mar /ag/ é am don tsaoil agus gur coinníodh ’n litriú sin. Siocair gur "oc" i Sean-Ghaeilg é.

Cibé ar bith, níl focal ar bith i nGaeilg ina mbeadh e + consan. Scríobhfaí eig nó aig ar a laghad. I nGaeilg na hAlban scríobhthar "aig" agus fuaimníthear mar i nGaeilg na hÉireann é. Tá ’n ceart agat, níl an litriú Gaeilge loighiciúil ins an fhocal sin, ach is mar sin atá sé :-) . Ba chóra dúinn "aig" nó "eig" a scríobh", dar liom.

"Cibé ar bith, níl focal ar bith i nGaeilg ina mbeadh e + consan. "

Cén fáth mar déanann daoine 'er' le 'ar'?

Haigh, a dhaoine, cuimhridh an threoir! "I'd appreciate if everyone would number their questions so people know which one is being answered"

Ceist a ceathair go leith ó Dhennis:
Dála an scéil, an bhfuil tú thall san Iorua anois?

Tá go deimhin! Ach ó tharla go raibh cúpla nóiméad saor agam aréir...
Amárach lá deiridh na scoile. Gabhfaidh mé ar ais fad le hOslo maidin Dé Sathairn agus fillfidh abhaile Dé Domhnaigh.

Agus ceist a cúig ó Rómán:
Ana-shuimiúil, a Abigail. Do you use "ní fheadar" with the same meaning in Conamara?
Ní úsáidím. Mar a deir Aonghus tá sé caighdeánach agus inghlactha chuile áit, ach ní dóigh liom go bhfuil sé ró-choitianta thiar. Dá ndéarfainn é ar chor ar bith, is é "níl a fhios agam" an t-aon bhrí a bheadh agam leis.

Ach tá neart daoine anseo a bheadh in ann freagra níos deimhnithe a thabhairt... caithfear a chur san áireamh nach raibh mise i gConamara riamh. (An bhliain seo chugainn, le cúnamh Dé!)

Ceist 3: Seo atá ag an tAthair uile eolach Ó Duinnín

ní mé go (an) I do not know that (whether) (Con)

Mar a deir Aonghus tá sé caighdeánach agus inghlactha chuile áit, ach ní dóigh liom go bhfuil sé ró-choitianta thiar.

I did not mean using it as alternative of "níl a fhios agam", but as a way of saying "I wonder" - this is what I meant. But as I understood - you use it neither way.

tá mé ’déanamh go bhfuaimnítí mar /ag/ é am don tsaoil agus gur coinníodh ’n litriú sin.

No. The old "oc" and current "ag" is not the same word. The current "ag" is derived from 3rd person form "aige", the original "ag" has simply fallen into disuse. In that sense Scottish spelling is much more historic. Therefore, saying "aige Máire" as heard in Ciarraí is a archaic thing, not some kind of invention. By the same token Scots use "ann" instead of "in". It is the same story with "ar". Current preposition is in reality "air" form all along. The old form with broad [r] is not used anymore.

quote:

I did not mean using it as alternative of "níl a fhios agam", but as a way of saying "I wonder"

Ní fheicim mórán difear eatarthu.

Braitheann sé ar an gcomhthéacs an "I wonder" or "I don't know" atá i gceist, ach is beag difear sa chiall idir "I don't know (but would like to)" agus "I wonder".

Therefore, saying "aige Máire" as heard in Ciarraí is a archaic thing, not some kind of invention.

"aige Máire" is what we say in Donegal too.
Scots have "an" too, = Irish "in".

"Oc" 3sg form was "occa" in Old Irish, so do you know where does "aige" come from?

And the question was "why do we write "ag" and not "e(i)g"...

Ní úsáidtear "ní fheadar" beag ná mór i gConamara. Sé'n feall nach bhfuil sé acu, mar is leagan deas é.

quote:

Sé'n feall nach bhfuil sé acu, mar is leagan deas é.

Feall = betrayal? Ní thuigim é, b'fhéidir gurbh fhearr "trua" ann?

Is mór an feall é = is mór an peaca é = is mór an trua é.

quote:

Cén fath ar athraigh siad an focal 'ocus' go 'agus' in áit 'ogus'?

Tá nath ag na teangeolaithe: Accidents happen to vowels.

How does the whole "ag" to "a" thing work as regards mutations? For instance, you'd have sentences like:

Bhíos ag ithe an úill
Bhíos ag ithe na feola
Bhíos ag bailiú an airgid
Bhíos ag bailiú na mboscaí

Do these become?:

Sin an t-úll a bhíos a ithe
Sin an fheoil a bhíos a hithe
Sin an t-airgead a bhíos a bhailiú
Siad sin na boscaí a bhíos a mbailiú

If I were to use "á" instead of "a", would they be:

Sin an t-úll a rabhas á ithe
Sin an fheoil a rabhas á hithe
Sin an t-airgead a rabhas á bhailiú
Siad sin na boscaí a rabhas á mbailiú

What about:

Sin é an t-úll a bhí á ithe agam.
Sin í an fheoil a bhí á hithe agam.
Sin é an t-airgead a bhí á bhailiú agam
Sin iad na boscaí a bhí á mbailiú agam


This is how it works in Cork Irish. You need "é", "í", "iad" after demonstrative "seo", "sin" if the noun is definite (with article or person's name). The third option looks wrong to me, and second needs "á" in Munster:

Sin é an t-úll a bhíos á ithe.
Sin í an fheoil a bhíos á hithe.
Sin é an t-airgead a bhíos á bhailiú.
Sin iad na boscaí a bhíos á mbailiú