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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (May-June) » Archive through June 18, 2007 » Explain the use of the urú in the TG « Previous Next »

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Podsers
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Username: Podsers

Post Number: 289
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 08:57 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

When is an urú necessary?
For instance

árd na ngleann

An féidir le héinne é a mhiniú ó thaobh an uimhir uatha agus iolra sa ghinideach agus úsáid urú.

Táim saghas caillte chun é sin a thuiscint.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartú

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1671
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 11:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

If it were a "regular" noun, it would works as follows:

null singular: an gleann
null plural: na glinn

genitive singular: an ghlinn
genitive plural: na ngleann

In the genitive plural, for both masculine and feminine, "an" is followed by an urú.

However, "gleann" works as follows:
an gleann
na gleannta
an ghleanna
na ngleannta

Sorry but I'm at a loss to explain "ard na ngleann" unless "gleann" is an alternative form for the genitive plural.

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 19
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 09:13 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Could be a generalisation of the rule, just treating the gen pl as null singular regardless of declension, or an extension of the dialectical rule of dropping the final bit fo the strong plural, or could just be wrong

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1673
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 11:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I wouldn't say such generalisation takes place. I always see:

de réir na scéalta, de bharr na soilse

and never see:

de réir na scéal, de bharr na solas

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 24
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 03:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I mean, someone themselves generalised it, not any group of people or dialect

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1674
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 05:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It would probably raise an eyebrow, just as if an English speaker were to day "I saw the childs playing in the park."

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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Podsers
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Username: Podsers

Post Number: 291
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 07:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bhuel tóg an logainm seo Cloch na Coillte le g nó gan g? Tá sé cloiste agam le "g" go minic agus tá sé mítreorach!

(Message edited by podsers on June 16, 2007)

Fáilte Roimh Cheartú

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Mac_léinn
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Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 625
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 08:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

However, "gleann" works as follows:
an gleann
na gleannta
an ghleanna
na ngleannta



I found this in Ó Dónáill's Foclóir Gaeilge Béarla:

gleann, m gs. ~a, pl. ~ta

Note the absence of a "t" in the genitive singular. "gleanna" is also the form shown at Foclóir Beag, http://www.csis.ul.ie/focloir

Then at the bottom of the same entry in Ó Dónaill:

Var: f, gs. glinne, pl. glinnte

Tá ceist agam: Is the "variation" indicated by Ó Dónáill actually from one or more of the dialects, and if so, which one(s)? I also noticed that the "variation's" gender is feminine, where as the main entry's gender is masculine.

Ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scoilbe.

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Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 626
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 09:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Fhear na Mbróg,

I just realized that your posting also omitted the t in the genitive singular, so please, a chairde, disregard my remark about the absence of the "t" in the genitive singular.

Ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scoilbe.



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