Hi.

Seo é dán:

Bhí subh milis ar bháscrann an doras
ach mhúch mé an corraí
ionaim a d'éirigh
mar smaoinigh mé ar an lá
a bheadh an bháscrann glan
agus an lámh beag - ar iarraidh

cén fáth a rabh an cainteoir fearg? (Mar a bhí báschrann salach, nó an leabh ag ithe subh-mhaith, nó mar a bhí subh daor i nÉirinn?)

( b'fhéidir go raibh ocras ar an bhfile agus gur mian leis an baschrann a ithe ach b'fhearr leis im air seachas subh ;-) )

Ní dóigh liom go raibh fearg ar an bhfile, nó banfhile, déarfainn,ach cumha nó tnúth i ndiaidh an am a mbeidh caite.i. nuair nach mbeidh an páiste ann.

I did this poem for the juniour cert and I still know it off by heart. Here's the proper form of it:

Subh Milis le Séamas Ó Néill

Bhí subh milis
ar bhaschrann an dorais
ach mhuach mé an corraí
ionam a d'éirigh
mar smaoinigh mé ar an lá
a bheas an baschrann glan
agus an lámh bheag
ar iarraidh

(to be honest I can't remember if he puts a séimhiú on "beag" after "lámh")

What the poem is about is as follows:

The poet arrives at the hall door of the house and gets pissed off coz the kid is after putting a big jam handprint all over the handle... but before he looses the head he thought to himself that there will be a day when the handle will be clean and the little hand will be gone. So you might think that either
a) He calms down because the kid will be gone on day and he doesn't have to go through this crap forever.
b) He calms down because he knows he should appreciate the time he has with the child, and he's saddened by the idea of the child being gone one day.

Whether A or B is the correct answer lies in the last line. "Ar iarraidh" is used in the place of something like "imithe". "Ar iarraidh" does indeed mean that it's gone, but it's means it in a way that the thing is sought after, wanted and missed.

There's a lot to think about in those few lines.

Cé a scríobh? cad is teideal dó?

á! Séamus ó Néill! Subh milis!

Is léir nach bhfuil mothú agat i leith filíochta, a fhir bhrógúil ;-)

That's a very enjoyable poem. I would just like to make an observation, not a point, of what I found in Ó Dónáill's Foclóir Gaeilge Bearla:

iarraidh (fourth definition)

4. Ar iarraidh, sought for, missing.

So don't da las two lines of da poem definitely mean dat da lil' hand will be missed and not simply gone? In other words, the poet is indicatin' dat one day he'll be longin' for the child.

Standard Disclaimer: I know you can't learn a language from a dictionary.

I would appreciate any clarification on the use of ar iarraidh here. That is, in the parlance of Irish, could it mean at times simply "gone," without any emotional aspects to the word like "missed?"

I found this translation (and the original Irish and a biography of the poet at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9amus_%C3%93_N%C3%A9ill


There was jam
On the doorhandle
But I suppressed the vexation
That rose up in me,
Because I thought of the day
That the doorhandle would be clean
And the little hand
Sought for.

That English translation sounds horribly unnatural, even if the meaning isn't too far off. My own attempt would be something like:

There was sweet jam
On the handle of the door
But I quenched the fire
That arose in me
For I pondered of the time
When the door handle would be clean
And the little hand
Nowhere to be seen

quote:

That English translation sounds horribly unnatural

The English translation I posted above was as an attempt to explain each line of the poem. I don't think that who ever constructed it had the purpose of poetic enjoyment in mind at the time.

Since Ó Dónaill uses a comma between sought for and missing he's indicating that the two are synonymous, and so he doesn't include a definition that "ar iarraigh" means anything unemotional like "gone" or "nowhere to be seen."

Séamas Ó Néill dedicated this poem to his mother, so I would think the poem would have some emotion in it and I would lean towards thinking that Ó Néill meant "sought for" rather than merely "nowhere to be seen." "Nowhere to be seen" seems to strip the poem of some of it's most important meaning, the feeling of someone you miss.

Aontaím leat.

Mar sin a thuig mise riamh é. Ach ní athair (fós) é FnaB!

An "corraí" is better translated as "stirring" than fire; vexation is probably too strong. Irritation, maybe.

From Ó Dónaill, under 2(a) definition for corraí:

corraí a bheith ort, to be moved, stirred; to be vexed. Ná cuir corraí air, don't vex him. Just following that is: Tá corraí crói air, his heart is stirred.

Tuigim sin; ach i gcomhthéacs an dáin, tá "vexed", dar liom, ró láidir.

Rud beag eile; más dá mháthair a thiomnaigh sé é, seans gurbh ise atá ag labhairt sa dán.

As I was reading this thread, my 2 year old son spilled an entire box of laundry detergent all over the floor!! How timely!!!

Is mana é sin! Caithfidh tú an níochán a dhéanamh!

Fáilte roimh ceartúcháin, go raibh maith agaibh.

Cad é mar déarfá "mhuach" as Bearla?

quote:

Irritation, maybe.

Is féidir é vexed a bheith ro-láidir uaireanta, ach as Béarla, ciallaíonn vexed "irritation" freisin

At http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vexation

Vexation (2nd definition - that's not too far down the list, I hope. ) The 1st definition just describes the act of being vexed.

the state of being vexed; irritation; annoyance: vexation at missing the bus.

Conas deirtear, multi-definitional as Gaeigle?

Fáilte roimh ceartúcháin, go raibh maith agaibh.

(Message edited by mac_léinn on June 03, 2007)

I couldn't find anything in the dictionaries for mhuach or muach. But I did find this from a google search about a King of Leinster named Cairthenn Muach

https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9902&L=old-irish-l&P=5090

I'm probably way off with the above info, but I thought I'd mention it.

A vexed question, clearly!

quote:

Conas deirtear, multi-definitional as Gaeilge?

Il-bhrí-ochas!

quote:

Cad é mar déarfá "mhuach" as Bearla?

N'fheadar. Cá bhfuair tú é?

Mhúch atá thuas - ciallaíonn sé switch off/smother

múchadh [ainm briathartha][ainmfhocal firinscneach]
tachtadh (múchta ag teas, ag slaghdán); cur as, cur amach (mhúch sé an tine); cosc (múchfaidh sé sin do thart); cosc anála de cheal aeir (bá is múchadh ort!); suncáil (múchta i bhfiacha); maolú (glór múchta); coinneáil siar (deora a mhúchadh); asma (tá an múchadh ag cur air).

(Message edited by aonghus on June 03, 2007)

N'fheadar. Cá bhfuair tú é?

Anseo


Bhí subh milis
ar bhaschrann an dorais
ach mhuach mé an corraí
ionam a d'éirigh
mar smaoinigh mé ar an lá
a bheas an baschrann glan
agus an lámh bheag
ar iarraidh

"mhuach" ? Dearmad cló é sin.

Recte: mhúch mé = I smothered, suppressed