mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (May-June) » Archive through May 30, 2007 » Meaning of "dóiche" « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1605
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 07:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In a sentence such as:

Ní dóiche go bhfuil...

I haven't been able to find it in any dictionary.

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

BRN (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 08:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd say dócha rendered slender internally to dóiche. Think like amáireach/amárach sometimes there are versions with only the opposite polarity sound differing

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Domhnall
Member
Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 1089
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 05:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aye, cloisim sin go minic i mBéal Feirste, b'fhéidir nach bhfuil ann ach Gaeilge Uladh do "dócha"

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc_Ó_g
Member
Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 331
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 12:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The "Focaloir Gaoidhilge Sax Bhéarla", written in 1768 lists dóiche meaning 'hope, confidense'.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

BRN (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Might suggest semantic drift ('in hope that'/'in confidence that')

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Abigail
Member
Username: Abigail

Post Number: 309
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 01:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

According to Ó Dónaill, dóiche seems to be either a variant spelling of dócha or the comparative of dóigh. (FGB, lch. 428, colún a haon.)

Ní dóiche go...
It is not probable that...

Ní dóiche go...
It is no more likely that...

(Message edited by Abigail on May 24, 2007)

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 574
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 02:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Scríobh Maidhc
quote:

The "Focaloir Gaoidhilge Sax Bhéarla", written in 1768 lists dóiche meaning 'hope, confidense'.



A Mhaidhc, is this dictionary available online, and if so, could you supply the link? In particular, I'm looking for a possible entry for "cócaireácht," or similar word.

Go raibh maith agat,

Mac Léinn Cócaireáchta

P.S. A chairde, ceist eile:

Although we haven't figured out yet what kind of noun "cócaireácht" is, I would like to know if I represented the genitive form correctly above in my pseudonym for the day. That is, "Mac Léinn" is masculine and "cócaireáchta" is feminine. So which of the two words govern whether I need to lenite "cócaireáchta?"

Go raibh maith agaibh.

(Message edited by mac_léinn on May 24, 2007)

Múineann gá seift

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

BRN (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 03:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Abigail
Member
Username: Abigail

Post Number: 310
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 03:14 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Just a note on the spelling: cócaireacht.

No lenition needed. Lenition of nouns is always governed by the preceding word - be it noun, article or possessive pronoun.

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 575
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 03:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

BRN,

Go raibh maith agat. I remember visiting the sites, but I didn't download them at the time. Thanks for posting them. I'll take a look at them tonight, since Deartháir Mór blocks access to certain sites, including the ones in your posting above.

Go raibh maith agat a Abigail as an ceartúchán. My favorite word (next to eating) and I can't even spell it correctly! .

I don't think I'll ever figure out how to construct genitives correctly, as I just realized I'm further confused due to learning something that the rule for lenition as it relates to gender is opposite for genitives as it is for the nominatives. I'll get back to reading, reading, reading (both dictionaries and textbooks) and try to clear up my ever-present confusion.

Thanks for the help.

Múineann gá seift

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5426
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 04:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Having downloaded it, here are the relevant definitions.

Cócaire, a cook, Latin infin. coquere

Cócaireacht, a cooking, alſo the art thereof.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 576
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 04:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks, Aonghus. It looks like that for at least 240 years or so, the Irish have had the word for cooking. And it's also interesting that that dictionary also indicates the root of the word to be Latin and not English.

Múineann gá seift

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5428
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 04:59 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I would put cócaireacht at much older than that. Cá bhfuil Dennis nuair atá sé de dhíth orainn?

But I couldn't find any trace of it in the manuscripts at Celt.

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G308002/index.html

Aislinge Meic Con Glinne is a farce about food, but I can't read it!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 577
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 06:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

I would put cócaireacht at much older than that.



I would speculate that the word cócaireacht entered the Irish language much earlier also. We may never find what that date is, but at some point in history, the concept of "cooking" entered the Irish parlance. It appears that it happened at least 240 years ago.

I'm trying to imagine how and when the word entered the Irish language. Was it in the earlier part of the Middle Ages, when Hiberno Latin began, say, around the 7th century, or, since the Irish were already busy frying, boiling, and baking, was it many centuries later that the Irish adopted the Latin-based word for cooking?

Múineann gá seift

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5430
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 05:30 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I has a look at An Béal Bheo this morning, which bears out my thesis that while cócaireacht is used for cookery, a more specific verb is used for the actual individual acts of cooking. I'll try and expand on this this evening.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 07:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Just got Corpas na Gaeilge from Liríocht.

dóiche:

DÓICHE (1820obc 19T) L145, lch. 21, líne 3
ios cia 'n t-am. /Níorbh é sin dob ait liom-sa a' teacht ráithe an gheimhridh //A bheith déanamh íosbairt istigh ar nio shráid, /'S go mbíonn sé 'na chat is 'na mhadadh san oidhche, /'S nár DHÓICHE 'na Phúca é, ná 'na shean-ghearrán bhán. / /III. / /A chómharsanna dílse tugaidh dhom congnamh, /Agus díbreocha mé an Púca amach as an áit, /Cuirfead faoi gheasa é, is faoi dhaoirse na húmhlac

DÓICHE (1902c-68 >19) L132, lch. 29, líne 14
eo a ardú ón bpian tá i mo dhroim; /i bhfad ó mo chairde is gan áit a'm a ligfinn mo scíth, /ach le toil Rí na nGrásta ní bheidh fán orm ach seal is cén bhrí? / /Bhéarfaidh mé móide is é is DÓICHE nach mbrisfidh mé thríd - /i gcomhluadar ban óg go deo deo ní shuífidh mé síos; /'s mé crádh leo i dtús m'óige is i dtosach mo shaoil, /'s iad a sheol ón Abhainn Mhór mé is mhúin dom

DÓICHE (1910c >19) L157, lch. 131, líne 5
a). /"Ghlac mé mur gcómhairle le mórán de'n tseóirt sin, /'S ní ghlacfad níos mó de," 'se dubhairt sise liom. /Tá mo uainín gan dóigh, agus ní bhéidh aige a'n deor /Mur bhfághfaidh mise, ar nDÓICHE, ar fud a bhfuil ann. /Ná tógaigidh cionn sorruighim recte sonraithe dhíom anois /go dtí 'n fóghmhar, /Is níor lughaide de mur ndórnán mo shoc a bheith ann; /Is a Pheadair, a stóirín, ná

DÓICHE (1915 >19) L157, lch. 83, líne 29
bhar na gcraobh mar éideadh leabtha ós mo /chionn, /Is mo sheacht n-anam déag is tú ag féachaint orm anall. / /V /Do chos deas i mbróig is ba luthmhar achtmhar do shiubhal, /Ní airighim, ar nDÓICHE, nach ró-dheas radharc do shúl, /Níl sé ar an domhan seo seóid ar bith is deise ná thú, /Do ghruaidh mar an rósa, seo póg dhuit is téidh liom /'un siubhail. / //VI /A thaisge 's a stóir

I also saw it in one of the Mayo dialect books, but could not find it again



©Daltaí na Gaeilge