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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (May-June) » Archive through May 30, 2007 » Gaeilge Verbs « Previous Next »

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Skii28
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Username: Skii28

Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 10:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi

I will like to know where you can get a copy of all verbs ( Past, Present, Future, Conditional). Is there a document available on this website

Thank you

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5417
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 10:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Try http://www.csis.ul.ie/focloir/

If you input any for of a verb, it will give you all of them, but you will ned to know the names of forms and tenses in Irish!
The buttons "Diúltach" will get you the negation, and "Ceisteach" the question form.

e.g.
osnaigh (osnaíl) Dearfach neamhaistreach LÁITH.
osnaím
osnaíonn tú
osnaíonn sé
osnaíonn sí
osnaímid
osnaíonn sibh
osnaíonn siad
Sb.
osnaítear
CAITE
d'osnaigh mé
d'osnaigh tú
d'osnaigh sé
d'osnaigh sí
d'osnaíomar
d'osnaigh sibh
d'osnaigh siad
Sb.
osnaíodh
GH. CHAITE
d'osnaínn
d'osnaíteá
d'osnaíodh sé
d'osnaíodh sí
d'osnaímis
d'osnaíodh sibh
d'osnaídís
Sb.
d'osnaítí
FÁIS.
osnóidh mé
osnóidh tú
osnóidh sé
osnóidh sí
osnóimid
osnóidh sibh
osnóidh siad
Sb.
osnófar

M. COINN.
d'osnóinn
d'osnófá
d'osnódh sé
d'osnódh sí
d'osnóimis
d'osnódh sibh
d'osnóidís
Sb.
d'osnófaí
M. FOSH. LÁITH.
go n-osnaí mé
go n-osnaí tú
go n-osnaí sé
go n-osnaí sí
go n-osnaímid
go n-osnaí sibh
go n-osnaí siad
Sb.
go n-osnaítear
M. ORD.
osnaím
osnaigh
osnaíodh sé
osnaíodh sí
osnaímis
osnaígí
osnaídís
Sb.
osnaítear
AINM BRIATH.
osnaíl
AIDIACHT BHRIATH.
osnailte

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James
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Username: James

Post Number: 473
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 01:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Skii...

I suspect (or it is expect) that you are asking this question due (or is it dew) to the fact that most languages have an enormous amount of irregular verbs. Irish is easier (as opposed to easy) in that it only has 12 irregular verbs.

Regular verbs are called such because (or is it 'cuz) they retain their root in all tenses. So, if you can remember the rules for first conjugation verbs and second conjugation verbs, you're 90% done!

1st Conjugation verbs are defined as follows:

verbs with a monosyllabic root (mol, bris)

verbs with polysyllabic roots that end in áil

There are a few that don't fit that last definition but they are just a few.

2nd Conjugation verbs are defined as follows:

Verbs with polysyllabic roots ending in igh (or aigh) or verbs with polysyllabic roots ending in il (or ail), in (or ain), ir (or air) and is (or ais) whose inflected forms are syncopated.

Don't ask me to explain that last part. We'll need some more educated people to break (or is it brake) that down into simple terms.

Anyway...I hope this is helpful. If not...hey...I tried!

Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.
Fáilte roimh cheartú, go deo.

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Marianna (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 01:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Or is that hay?

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James
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Username: James

Post Number: 474
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 01:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I (or is it eye) like that! Too ( or is it to, or two) funny!!

Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.
Fáilte roimh cheartú, go deo.

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 01:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Verbs with polysyllabic roots ending in igh (or aigh) or verbs with polysyllabic roots ending in il (or ail), in (or ain), ir (or air) and is (or ais) whose inflected forms are syncopated."

All you need is rythm! Compare doras 'do-ras' (2 sylables) with doirse which might be expected to be 'doirisha' (do-rish-ah) but is actually more like 'dursh-ah'. This is like when you are in the middle of a sentance and if you think of the syllables like beats in a song, sometimes some beats might clash so for l, n, r (been 'vowel-like') get moved about to change the beat pattern.

Ex: sabháil --> shábhálainn (sa-wawil +inn =saw-wawlinn). I think this must be considered in the context of the natural usage of langauge where the sentance as a whole, nor abstracted words alone, predominates. It makes more sense holistically

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Do_chinniúint
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Username: Do_chinniúint

Post Number: 140
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 05:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

If you are looking for a book with the breakdowns like the verb books you might find for another language in a bookestore, I recommend "Briathra na Gaeilge: Regular and Irregualr Verbs" by Déaglán and Pádraig Ó Murchú.

It is close the closest thing I have found to these types of books.

It gives the exact same breadown, in the exact same format, that you find on the website Aonghus suggested called An Foclóir Beag...

The book can be found at the Litriocht site:

http://www.litriocht.com/shop/

If you would like the details before you buy it...it is a 7 x 9.5 inch paperback, 50 pages, and uses the model verb system. That's were they fully breadown each type of verb within a given conjugation, and list several verbs that follow this exact same pattern. It is hard to say the number of verbs they breakdown.

I would say it has about 300+ Irish verbs and about 400+ English verbs. One Irish verb can have multiple English verbs...which can be a little confusing. Also, you have to cross check some of the verbs because while the verb can have the "implied" meaning, there may be a better or different Irish verb out there. This is something that I run into all the time!!!

While this allows them to save space and cost in book production, it can cause a little trouble for the new learner who doesn't have the confidence to try a verb on their own. I think between using this book with the An Foclóir Beag website, there isn't a verb you can't breakdown.

I think some of the pros of this book are:

1) It is in English and intended for English speakers.
2) It gives a very nice introduction to Irish verbs.
3) It is fairly cheap.

I hope this helps...

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Skii28
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Username: Skii28

Post Number: 19
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 12:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

For a way to remember how to construct the verb, I do something like this (for short verbs):

General Personal Pronouns (mé, tú, sé, sí, muid, sibh, siad) -GPP

Modal Peronal suffixes (ainn, á, ait sé/sí, aimist, ait sé/sí, aidís) MPS

L =lenition

E =eclipsis

D =devoice final consonant of root

Present Continous:

root +GPP

independant form: root +ann

dependant form: root +ann +s

autonomous: +ar/tar

Past:

root/L +GPP

root +GPP

independant form: root/L

dependant form: no special form

autonomous: +as/ach

Future:

root/D

independant form: root/D +idh (shortens to a/e before GPP)

dependant form: root/D +a/e +s

autonomous: root/D +ar/tar

Present Subjunctive:

go + root/E + GPP

independant form: go +root/E +ann

dependant form: no special form

autonomous: root/E +ar/tar

Past Subjunctive:

dá +root/E +MPS

independant form: dá +root/E +ach

dependant form: no special form

autonomous: root/D +aí/faí

Imperfect:

root/L +MPS

independant form: root/L +ach

dependant form: no special form

autonomous: root/L +aí/taí

Conditional:

root/L & D +MPS

independant form: root/L & D +ach

dependant form:

autonomous: root/L +aí/faí

Ordering form: (synthetic endings)

root +aim, Ø, ait sé/sí, aimis, aigí, aidíst

autonomous: +ar/tar

dependant: root

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1662
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 01:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

independant form: root +ann

dependant form: root +ann +s


Wrong, your "dependent" form is the direct relative one.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 01:30 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Indeed it is due to a cut and paste error before been duplicated. However, it's not an issue as a) you can see the form once ina sentance is relative b) the paradigms above are for use on most regular short verbs and c) no one is going to use it anyway...

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 01:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Oh ya, and I confounded 'dependant coming from old deponant verb' with 'form dependant on prior particle (for lenition)'.

Oh well...

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Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn

Post Number: 581
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 12:20 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Scríobh BRN:
quote:

This is like when you are in the middle of a sentance and if you think of the syllables like beats in a song, sometimes some beats might clash so for l, n, r (been 'vowel-like') get moved about to change the beat pattern.



I've always thought of language and music as closely related, and perhaps that's due to the rhythms they both possess as you describe above. I also think that when spoken words employ voice modulation, either tonally or volumetrically, they exhibit crucial characteristers that are also present in singing.

If it ain't got that swing, it don't mean a thing.
Duke Ellington

Múineann gá seift

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 183
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 03:15 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"If it ain't got that swing, it don't mean a thing."


Curse you. This will be with me now throughout the night, plus I will be trying to remember which consumer product hijacked that dittie in the seventies thus searing it onto my childhood brain....



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