I own both Irish On Your Own and Learning Irish. I have been thinking about doing the IOYO first and then tackling Learning Irish because it is very important to me, when I learn a language, to be able to have at least some sort of basic conversation early on. IOYO seems very conversational, and relatively light. Learning grammar and the like is important to me too, but it is actually speaking that gets and keeps me motivated for the long haul.

I think I could move through IOYO pretty quickly, and feel set with enough conversational ability to get on with Learning Irish, which I have gotten bogged down in and quit on several times already. Would this be a bad idea due to dialectal differences? Am I just going to be confusing myself? Am I going to end up sounding weird? Does that even matter?

Learn as much as the language as you can, from whatever dialect. You can sound as weird as you want until you properly stay somewhere where you can speak the language regularly. A native English-speaking friend of mine spends half the year down the country and half the year in Dublin... and he responds in the dialect and accent in which he's spoken to (which is quite funny when there's boggers around!). I myself usually used to use the word "teach" for house but I had switched to "tigh" after two minutes of conversation in a Munster Gaeltacht. My advice is just learn EVERYTHING.

I second that suggestion! After 3 years of studying Connacht Irish on my own (no pun intended), I made it into a class, but the teacher has Donegal Irish. I too was worried at first to end up having patchwork quilt Irish, but it really isn't that bad.

It takes a lot of getting used to it but stick with it, i speak all dialects in my speech i.e. using words and phrases and pronunciation from every corner of Ireland..

I don't think mixing up dialects is a good idea. You'll sound "foreign" in every Gaeltacht. It's better to stick to just one dialect, or learn several dialects but to try not to mix them up.

Every dialect is a system that has its own coherence, and if you mix up these systems, I think it will sound very odd. Just imagine someone who speaks English with a different accent in every sentence!

I second Lughaidh. While studying all the Gaelainn you can is better than nothing - it is still better to stay consistent. The differences between dialects are much deeper than they seem at first, many thing are very closely interconnected, so making a patchwork Irish is not the best solution. If you don't know better - "re-work" all the resources you have into caighdeán oifigiúil. At least there are ample references to cross-check in the case of doubt.

p.s. Do bhís i siopa leabhar inniubh agus ionadh orm nuair a chonac gramadach na Gaelainne le TYI leagan. I gcaibidil fésna aidiachtaíbh scríofar go séimhítear an aidiacht tar éis an t-ainmfhocal firinscneach i dtabharthach! m. sh. "le tamall fhada". An amhlaidh é i gcaideán oifigiúil???

Halló, ar do fhilleadh, a Rómáin

Tá an-áthas orm thú a fheiscint arís, a BhRiN!

Here's what I'd suggest as a minimal approach with regard to dialect in learning any language:

1) Learn the stuff specific to your target dialect.
2) Don't bother learning the stuff which is alien to the dialect, but which you'll easily cop the meaning of.
3) Do bother learning the stuff which is alien to the dialect, but which you won't easily cop the meaning of.

An example of number 2 would be a Munster Irish learner learning "dos na páistí" without needing to known that some people will say "do na páistí"... because it couldn't be more obvious what they're saying.

An example of number 3 would be a Connacht Irish learner learning "thúg mé" but not learning "thugas". They won't have a clue what "thugas" means.

Do mo chás féin, ní úsáideann mé Tír Chonaill + Conamara + Gaolainn in aon abairt amháin. Ach séard atá i gceist agam ná go mbím ag úsáid "Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?" agus mé ag labhairt le mo dhuine i gConamara, "Caidé mar atá tú?" le mo bhainisteoir anseo i mBéal Feirste &rl...

Thanks for the replies.

Since I don't have a particular target dialect in mind, I guess I have more questions. Which dialect will I most likely encounter at a distance/in the US? There's virtually no chance that I will ever go to Ireland, so most of my exposure will likely be via the Internet (RnaG, TG4, whatever other sites I dig up) and maybe whatever local opportunities I can ferret out.

On one hand, it really doesn't matter if I sound funny, since I'll most likely just be talking to myself anyway, but on the other hand, if the winds of Fate shift so that I get a chance to go find myself some live conversation, I don't want to sound like an idiot... or at least not any more than usual.

Our múinteoir teaches us both, but lets us know which one is the more common. Buggered if I know which is which dialect wise!

It's a bit annoying when the books we have use other terms as the norm.

(Message edited by searbhreathach_cinseallach on May 15, 2007)

quote:

Which dialect will I most likely encounter at a distance/in the US?

Basically I think you're asking which dialect has the most speakers? Probably Ulster (even though it's the one most different from the "Standard").

Different people choose different dialects because they like specific features. I'm a Munster man myself, I like the old verb+person constructions and things like "dos na". Other people like Ulster Irish.

Mia,

Your question does not have a definite answer. If you just browse internet, then because of Northern Ireland's activities (BBC programs and so on) - it is possible that you find more resources in Ulster Irish than anything else. If you listen to RnaG or TG4 - then by the token that main studios are in Galway - you are liable to hear Connacht Irish most of the time. The Munster Irish (although I am Munster enthusiast myself) has the least number of resources. Still, nobody can deny that Munster Irish has the most copious and finest literature to speak of (albeit there is some good stuff in Ulster Irish as well). Before I continue - you should really be sure that all dialects are equal - so whenever dialect you speak - all are fine, and none is "weird". Weird is only unusual mish-mash maccaroni that learners sometimes do out of bits of different dialects.

Then, the question of choosing dialect has no obvious answer. Usually people choose their favorite on the base of genealogy as majority of learners have Irish roots. If you say where your forebears came from we might suggest the dialect which the closest to the way your ancestors spoke.

quote:

Our múinteoir teaches us both, but lets us know which one is the more common

Ní thuigim thú, gabhaim pardún agat! What do you mean by saying "both"? "Both" what? Could you please expand on that?

Fear na mBróg,

Chances are you'll hear all different kinds of dialects, that range from native speakers from different Gaeltachts to Gaelscoil children with English-speaking parents, and people who have learnt Irish outside the Gaeltacht at school.

I think the key is to try to understand everyone: so I'd agree with those who suggest trying to understand / learn all dialects (eventually). You'll then have a knowledge of all the possibilities - after all you'll want to understand as many people as possible.

Whether you choose a specific dialect or not when speaking is another thing; but chosing a particular dialect is not paramount. Most people understand all dialects, and various aspects of these dialects are becoming used by all, now that we have TG4 and Raidió na Gaeltachta.

Once you have knowledge of all dialects, then if you see that a person you're talking to is confused, you'll be able to use an alternative way of saying what you want - like we often have to do in English, when speaking to Scots, Aussies, Americans, and especially to many of our new immigrants. No one should complain or suggest you should speak one dialect over another, so long as you are understood - even if in the end yours is a mixture. Many immigrants learning English have a mixture of American, Oxford, Irish, and international English influences. Perhaps it sounds 'strange' to begin with - but so what, as long as they are understood - and they are learning. Remember, it's as much up to the person you're talking to, to adapt and adjust to help you understand them and to understand you - that's how it should work if both parties truely want to communicate. You're a learner and people in an ideal world should be patient. If they are not, remember that the issue lies with them - just keep learning as you are.

Over time your own 'dialect' (store of words and phrases) will develop and will be influenced by those you communicate with / listen to the most, and it will settle down on its own. It will incorporate the various nuances of communication necessary for you and your company.

If you want to choose one dialect to be dominant when speaking, choose one you like the sound of / you think will be easier for you.

As regards accent, it is nice (and to a degree necessary) to try to imitate the native accent to help understanding. Note (perhaps from your own experience with) immigrant people speaking English - sometimes the rhythm of their accent is difficult for us. If your accent is too 'foreign' for your Irish, you may have to temper it. As long as it falls within the general rhythm of the major dialects, you'll be fine - you don't have to be perfect at the beginning on a particular accent, even if you're striving for perfection.

In brief, just get stuck in. Learning from resources with different dialects / accents isn't really a problem. Any issues will get ironed out in the end, if you get talking. By learning from different dialects and accents you'll be a more competitant communicator - as with English and other languages.

In learning a language you'll always make mistakes at the beginning - that's how the human mind hones its knowledge on language, by experimenting and noting how the phrases it uses are understood (or not understood, as the case may be) by the listener. At the beginning people will not understand everything you say - that's natural, and part of the process. Just keep trying.

Enjoy the journey!! Best of luck to you!


Beannachtaí an tSamhraidh ort, agus ádh mór,

Dr Pól Mac Cana.

P.S. Another Irish language radio is now on the internet www.raidiofailte.com. It's a community radio in its infancy, based in Belfast - you'll even hear some Scottish Gaelic thrown in there too (- beautiful accent, I think!). They broadcast some programmes for beginners, and they hope to make more programmes available for learners - drop them an email to find out more.

Can someone tell me the dialects used in Progress in Irish and Buntús Cainte? I am a little concerned about dialects since I will be taking Irish courses at NUIG in September, but I think any start in Irish is better than only knowing the basics I have now. GRMA.

Can someone tell me the dialects used in Progress in Irish and Buntús Cainte?

Neither are dialect-based, but rely on the Caighdeán Oifigiúil.

PII teaches Irish in a grammar-based way (although not heavy-handedly so) and lacks recordings (although some are now available online by Scoil Ghaeilge Ghearóid Tóibín).

BC teaches Irish in a more conversational way (with recordings), and only implies grammar rules by examples.

Scoil Ghaeilge Ghearóid Tóibín

Account for philoceltic site with mp3s is gone, maybe till they remember to pay the hosters!

Buntús Cainte is CLEARLY Conamara stuff!! Gan dabht, or shall I say gan amhras?

Tá amhras ormsa! Bhí sé i gcesit go mbeadh an CO sa leabhar úd.

Ach féach seo:
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0230/D.0230.196711080041.html

quote:

Tá amhras ormsa

Tá a fhios agam go maith cad 'na thaobh ná habrann na Gaeilgeoirí féin leithéid de "gan amhras". Is brí "suspicion" le "hamhras", ná "dabht"! Tá na leabhair úd i gcaideán, go deimhin, ach tá na dlúthdhiosca de bhlas Chonnacht, gan dabht. Seo é a bhí i gceist agam nuair aduart gur blas Chonnachta é.

An feidir na cláir telefís a cheannach?

"An feidir na cláir teilifíse a cheannach?"

Cinnte, ach cad 'na thaobh? Cad ba mhaith leat a dhéanamh leis ansan?

(Message edited by Róman on May 18, 2007)

N'fheadar.

Is beag clár de chuid RTÉ atá ar fáil (agus is i PAL seachas NTSC a bhíonn siad don gcuid is mó)