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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (May-June) » Archive through May 13, 2007 » Can someone please help me « Previous Next »

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Chrispy_223
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Username: Chrispy_223

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 03:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

i need to learn how to not only write, but also pronounce "no regrets" in irish gaelic. also, "my darling" is another phrase i need to learn to write/pronounce, if someone doesn't mind.

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 1141
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 11:26 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My darling equals mo stor with an accent (fada) over the o. However if you are addressing someone as "my darling" then it would be a stor still with a fada over the o.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1541
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 11:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In any language there are a few ways of saying "no regrets", e.g. "deficit of regrets", "lack of regrets". . . etc.

In Irish, "no" is canonically translated as "ar bith" in this context, but I think something like "easpa" might be more appropriate in this context.

As for a word for "regrets", well I know a "commodity word" for regret, but I don't know an individual one.

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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Chrispy_223
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Username: Chrispy_223

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 11:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

thank you fear_na_mbrog for you help with that, do you think you could tell me the closest translastion to "no regrets" then, in the context of not having any regrets in my life, i'm getting a tattoo done and i want it to say it in gaelic, so it can't be too long. also, thank you Riona for the translation of my darling

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 283
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 12:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

gan aiféala (= "without regrets") might get you close.

Another possibility, as Fear na mBróg says, is aiféala ar bith. (That one's a bit ambiguous though: it could be read as either "no regrets at all" or "any regrets at all.")

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Chrispy_223
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Username: Chrispy_223

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 12:14 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

thanks abigail, i really like that first one, i think i'll get that one tattooed, just curious, how do you pronounce it? i don't want to get something tattooed to me when i don't know how to pronounce it (sorry if any of you out there think it's lame that i don't know how to pronounce gaelic yet. i just met my birth parents 5 months ago and found out that i'm more than 3/4s irish, so i'm starting to work on it.)

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 284
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 12:49 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Not lame at all! In fact you're in excellent company... precious few Nobel prize winners (or world leaders, rock stars, great philanthropists, etc.) would know either.

Roughly gan AA-fay-la (AA as in "cat".)

(By the way, if you do go to learning Irish, be careful what books you buy! Look for something that says "Irish" - if it says "Gaelic" you'll be learning the related-but-different language spoken in Scotland.)

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1542
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 05:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Maybe it varies by dialect, but I've always pronounced aiféala with a long a, i.e. Aw fay la

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 06:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

that 'flat ah' I think is only in Donegal in inital positions and is liable to get an f sometimes maybe in other places, easóg/feasóg (ferret) and is usually coded in text by ea historically. I'm not sure if f is allowed in a lot of Conemara between vowels, even in nouns (as Cois Fhairrige is Abigail's targetted dialect, I think)

The short version of á in tá, that is 'a' does not exist in a lot of dialects as FnB says. ai would be safer cross dialectiacally as á, especially if you are looking at a condition where the f might drop out and maybe lengthen the prior vowel maybe by analogy with verbs

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1543
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 07:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What's strange though is that it isn't spelt with a fada on the initial a (which would have explained the different pronunciation across dialects).

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 07:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I've always heard 'aiféala' pronounced by native speakers of all dialects the way Abigail explained it. I would welcome other pronunciations of it, however, from native speakers from either Munster or Donegal.

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 07:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The spelling suggests that it was historically pronounced short. We have been conditioned to pronounce inital a long from natives, maybe because of (example) á in árd where it was once short and the r was heavily trilled on the teeth. Lost of the trill put the focus on the vowel. Possibly/Maybe people then over-generalied this to all short intial a vowels as Short Vowel + (historically long) dental (d, dh (fricative), t, th, s, r long/trill, l long, n long) might have been more numerous in frequency or example than a + f, a+ p etc.

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 08:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

in SW Donegal you were allowed the short a there before slender bilabials, such as f here. Maybe it is still that way with the english f

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 286
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 09:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

that 'flat ah' I think is only in Donegal in inital positions and is liable to get an f sometimes maybe in other places, easóg/feasóg (ferret) and is usually coded in text by ea historically. I'm not sure if f is allowed in a lot of Conemara between vowels, even in nouns (as Cois Fhairrige is Abigail's targetted dialect, I think)
Iarthar Chonamara rather. My first teacher was from Ceantar na nOileán, so that's what my Irish (mostly) takes after. (To be honest I've come under a mixture of influences though, as do most of us on this side of the pond.)

In any case, Seosamh Ó hÉanaí and Máirtín Tom Sheáinín both have the same pronunciation of it - /af'e:lə/. I can post sound clips if anyone's interested.

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 06:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

There is difference between a flat 'ah' (which is long everywhere it is) and the short a in tá, that was my point. I cant write out symbols on this machine, but 'ah' looks like and a +e together. This might work: [æ] vs [a]

Anyway, it looks liek a confusion as no standard terminology was used. Post the sound clips. Might be speaking about the same thing after all

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 287
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Warning: If we go using too much standard terminology, you'll probably lose me! I'm just now starting to pick up some of the notation, because I wanted to read Stair na Gaeilge and you can't get away from it in there.
But I've been learning Irish about the ignorantest way there is - just listen as often as possible and mimic as closely as possible. That's fine if your goal is to use the language (as mine is) but it's pretty poor preparation for explaining anything to anybody else.


Anyway, here they are then:
(transcriptions mine)

http://www.nd.edu/~amitche3/gaeilge/mairtin_tom_sheainin__an_sagairtin__clip.mp3
Ó, éist a chailín deas is ná síl deoir,
Mar ní dhuitse a rugadh mé ná dh'aon bhean beo
Ach baistfidh mé do leanbh duit le cúnamh Dé,
Agus dhá mbeadh breith ar m'aiféala a'm ba leat mé féin


http://www.nd.edu/~amitche3/gaeilge/seosamh_o_heanai__an_sagairtin__clip.mp3
Muise, éist a Bhideoigín is ná goil deoir,
Ní dhuit a rugadh mé ná dh'aon bhean beo
Baistfidh mé do leanaí le cúnamh Dé,
Dhá mbeadh breith ar m'aiféala a'm ba leat mé féin

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Chrispy_223
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Username: Chrispy_223

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 05:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

thank you everyone for your help, especially abigail, i can't wait to get that tattooed above my clover. oh, about the irish and gaelic, isn't irish called gaelic differencesas well.i mean i know there are differences, b thing the sameut aren't they called the same thing?

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Between the singing and the m it is not te best place to see, but it sound like a short [æ]. I am hoever, more interested in speech than singing as sean nós may sometimes have some archaic features. Nice singing

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5284
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What does the (rather trite) englsih phrase "No regrets" really mean? I don't think any of the Irish transaltions yet have come close to the "It was fun while it lasted, now let's move on" meaning of that phrase (which I dislike!)

In particular
dhá mbeadh breith ar m'aiféala agam

Means

If only I could undo what I did., i.e. plenty of regrets!

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 10:18 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I agree with the triteness of a lot fo this sort of stuff. It seems to stem from an aesthetic that is very alien to irish

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Chrispy_223
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Username: Chrispy_223

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 04:29 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

it is used as, "i have lived my life without any regrets."

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5307
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 09:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sorry, Chris. I realise that must have sounded like direct criticism of you - that was not my intention; I just hate that phrase in the context of relationships, which I thought it was in because of the "my darling"!

Mhair mé gan cúis aiféala a bheith agam
I lived without having cause for regret.



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