I mBéarla: "Verner's Beach" nó "Alex Verners Beach",

I nGaeilge, an bhfuil sé "Trá Bhearnuir"?

An féidir libh cabhrú liom? Gura míle, a chairde.

(Message edited by ceolmhar on April 18, 2007)

Since "Verner" isn't an Irish name, I'd keep the name as it is: "Trá Verner."

Looks like you've borrowed my signature from IGTF (or maybe great minds just think alike!).

Faolchú Rua

GRMMA a Fhaolchú :-)

I know "Verner" is not Irish, but I want the Irish spelling.

Stolen siganture? that's strange, I've never heard of you before. Go n'eiri an bothar leat. It's a lie, I saw you on Irish translator dot com, I thought it was a fantastic quote, not many people would get it.

Gura míle :-)

Ba mhaith liom litruí Gaelach, a chairde. LBD!!!


"Trá Alex Verner"

(Message edited by ceolmhar on April 18, 2007)

LOL! Sometimes I think if I hear another "may the road rise to meet you" I'll explode! Glad you like it!

Do feel free to continue using it. I change my signatures almost as often as I re-dye my hair red (truth in advertising, dontcha know!).

I guess if you're looking for a phonetic rendering, "Bhiurnur" or "Bheurnur" would be fairly close. Trouble is, I'd be inclined to put in a "y" glide after the "bh," which would make it sound more like VYUR-ner.

Faolchú Rua

"LOL! Sometimes I think if I hear another "may the road rise to meet you" I'll explode! Glad you like it!"

Whenever I hear that, I usually think of a drunkard, stumbling home from the pub, falling face-first onto the asphalt road...

I usually think of earthquakes! (comes of living in California, I guess). Hereabouts, rising roads are very real phenomena, which we generally hope to avoid. Falling roads are just as bad.

I'm never entirely sure what to do with non-Irish names. My general inclination is to leave them as they are, but is there a precedent for phoneticizing them (particularly if they include "non-traditional" letters)? I'm curious as to how this might be handled in a Gaeltacht.

Faolchú Rua

That's something I've wondered about as well, FR.

I'd imagine that the inclination would be to lenite or eclipse a non-Irish name just the same as if it were Irish, unless the initial sound was completely non-existant in Irish. But, what do I know. :)

A Fhaolchú, Táim ag gaire, crua! Gura míle.

An bhfuil aon litriú eile ag an daoine eile?

(Message edited by ceolmhar on April 19, 2007)

Verner -> I would write Bearnar, in the genitive Bhearnair. So: Trá(igh) Bhearnair.

The normal convention in Ireland is to leave such names unchanged; but some acquire an Irish equivalent over time.

http://www.iol.ie/~sob/sraid/index.html

quote:

3. Maidir le hainmneacha dílse, idir ainmneacha pearsanta agus ainmneacha áite, ní ghlacaim leis an nós atá coitianta ag an nGaeilge oifigiúil (murab ionann is an Ghaeltacht) ainmneacha gallda a “Ghaelú” agus foirmeacha truaillithe a chruthú nach bhfuil aon bhrí leo, idir (a) fhoirmeacha traslitrithe nach Gaeilge ná Béarla iad (agus a dhéanann ceap magaidh den Ghaeilge), mar shampla “Sráid Dhásain” (Sráid Dawson), “Bóthar Lansdún” (Bóthar Lansdowne), agus (b) na hainmneacha sin ar féidir linn “bréag-aistriúcháin” a thabhairt orthu, a chuireann i gcéill gur ainm Gaelach a bhí ann ar dtús agus gur truailliú den ainm Gaeilge é an t-ainm Béarla, mar shampla “Plás Dhún Sméara” (Plás Beresford). An leabhar Post-Sheanchas (1905 agus 1911) le Seosamh Laoide is bunús le formhór na n-ainmneacha sin, atá le feiceáil fós ar na hainmchláir uaine, agus tá rian den bheartas sin le feiceáil fós sa liosta oifigiúil.

Aontaím leis!

---

http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=verner

http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=werner

Trá an Óglaigh mo mholadh, dá bhrí sin!

May the road rise to meet you.

I don't care if people might explode (that's their problem) but this saying is probably one of my favorite Hiberno-English phrases. I know we've been over this issue again and again, but since it's been brought up again, I thought I would point out that "rise to" has nothing to do with the act of elevating. A simple check in any high-school dictionary, or www.dictionary.com will provide the correct meaning of "rise to":

20. to prove oneself equal to a demand, emergency, etc. (fol. by to): to rise to the occasion; to rise to one's responsibilities.

Now, I'm sure that there are people on this planet who aren't familiar with this definition of "rise to" but except for this forum and one other, I am yet to find a person who cannot understand that "rise to" does not mean "elevate" or some similar meaning. As long as folks continue to bash this saying, I'll continue to explain its proper context.

Again, think Hiberno English.

(Message edited by mac_léinn on April 19, 2007)

I'd rather think Irish, since this is clearly simply a mistranslation of "éirigh le," meaning "to succeed":

Má éirionn linn: If we succeed

Go n-éirí an bóthar leat: A successful journey to you.

No rising roads intended or implied.

Faolchú Rua

I contend that it is not a mistranslation, but rather is a good example of Hiberno English. The structure éirí "something" le is very common in the Irish language, and I don't think a native Irish speaker would misconstrue that the structure has anything to do with "elevating," just as I think that virtually all English speakers would not misconstrue "rise to" as having anything to do with "elevating."

The key to understanding the connection between "go n-éirí an bóthar leat" and "may the road rise to meet you" is two-fold:

1. The presence of "le" in the Irish phrase equates to the presence of "to" in the English counterpart, thus giving rise to the meaning "succeed."

2. The phrase employs Hiberno English. That is, the relationship between the "road" and "you" has been preserved. It's poetic in nature, and that's the part I like the most.

Lastly, if one were to view the English phrase on its own, and considering that "rise to" never means "elevate," in English, the resulting non-Hiberno English form would be "may the road succeed in meeting you." Again no presence of elevating roads.

I'm not asking anyone to like the phrase. I happen to like it very much. I just think that there's no logic to translating the Irish or English phrase so that elevating roads are mentioned.

22.2.7 Aistriú Sloinnte
Ní dhéantar iarracht ainmneacha eachtrannacha (Jacques
Chirac, Adolf Hitler, Bill Clinton, srl.) a aistriú. Ní aistrítear ach oiread ainmneacha Éireannach nach nós (nó nár nós, i gcás daoine stairiúla) leo féin leagan Gaeilge a úsáid: m.sh. Bertie Ahern (agus, ón stair, Michael Davitt).

Cruinnscríobh na Gaeilge
Eagrán nua méadaithe
Ciarán Mac Murchaidh