I recently got a copy of A View of the Irish Language, edited by Brian Ó Cuív (1969). I have just started to read the book, but have found it full of fascinating subjects. One article, by the editor himself, entitled The Changing Form of the Irish Language is a real eye opener to me. Ó Cuív briefly discusses the role of Ogham writing and gives an example of it, including its transliteration. What has become clear to me from the author's example, which I couldn't have figured out myself, is that the slash marks used in Ogham writing seem to have a one-to-one correspondence to our modern alphabet.

My first question is in regard to the knowledge base that currently exists on Ogham writing. What texts or other resources are available that would be helpful in understanding this earliest of writing forms for the Irish language? I would also like to know if there have or had been any attempts to revive this style of writing. Having been an active reader of the many threads here on the Daltaí forum, it's very clear to me that a number of contributors find such developments as An Caighdeán Ofigiúil, and newly borrowed loan words and oft-used phrases like tá fáilte romhat to be nothing but Ugly Anglicisms or corruptions to "true" Irish, whatever that means. With such a perspective that anything but original Irish is unworthy, isn't it time that we return to the one and only true Irish form of writing which is the Ogham style?

On a related note, while driving to work, I pass a telephone pole that has three full length slashes on it. I've always wondered what they meant. I found at Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NG%C3%A9adal that these three slashes stand for the letter nGéadal which means wounding. Would a single letter in Ogham have any meaning?

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Mac Léinn Oghaim

(Message edited by mac_léinn on April 10, 2007)

probably not but fair play for looking into it!

A Mhic Leinn

I am no expert on ogham but have an interest. My understanding is that most of the letters (but not all) represent the name of a native Irish tree, and that the first letter of the the tree's name gives the sound of the letter.

Thus two straight strokes to the left of the median line represent the letter "D" from "dair" (oak). So in that case a single letter could be said to have a meaning

From the 4th century onwards the ogham characters were used to represent the Latin alphabet, but I suspect they mave have been used as pictograms before that.

There's lots of material on the web, much of it contradictory - just Google "ogham". Here are some sites:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ogham.htm
http://www.evertype.com/standards/og/ogmharc.html

University College Cork has a wonderful collection of about 30 stones on display in the Stone Corridor

http://experience.ucc.ie/VirtualTour/stone_tour.html

Ogham has become quite popular in contemporary Irish design - particularly jewellery

http://www.briandestaic.com/pendants.html

Irish gift store Carraig Donn recently carried a range of framed wall hangings with names like Suaimhneas Siochain and Aoibhneas painted in roman script and ogham

http://www.carraigdonn.com/about.htm

"My understanding is that most of the letters (but not all) represent the name of a native Irish tree, and that the first letter of the the tree's name gives the sound of the letter."

The scololary concensus now is that that they were only mnemonics from the later medievil period, used for teaching kids

http://cura.free.fr/xx/17bouten.html

There is a better articles for this purpose, if I can find it

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1459697

I was talking about tree alphabet not 'clocha an óim'. Incidentally, the Collins dic has 'oghaim' down as dat singual, which must be wrong. Which brings me to my next point, is óm used singualr vs plural or a colective noun like in English?

A Fhionn, a Shuaimheas, agus a BRN, go raibh maith agaibh as an eolas. Ta sé an suimiúil! Now that I know that a single letter can represent something in Ogham, I suspect that the marking on the telephone pole means that it is wounded or damaged, nach ea?

What I would very much like to know is how to write my pseudonym, Mac Léinn in Ogham. Can we use Ogham letters to represent Modern Irish words in general, such as the simple phrase "tá me go maith?"

I also wonder that at the time Ogham was being replaced by the Roman Alphabet, did the leading literary critics have in place some sort of Mongrel Psuedo-Irish Condemnation Program aimed at Ugly Romanisms?

(Message edited by Mac_léinn on April 11, 2007)

The medium and message are different things!

I'm sure Mac Leinn could be written in ogham, but as it flourished in the 4th to 7th Centuries it is probably the equivalent of Mac leinn in Old Irish. One for Dennis, ceapaim

For what its worth, a Mhac Leinn, I think that Romanisms comment was hilarious.

Beir bua agus beannacht

A Ríona, a chara, go raibh maith agat - agus Fiche Ceist abú!

A Chairde, conas deirtear Mongrel Psuedo-Irish Condemnation Program as Gaeilge?

Clár le cáineadh an Ghaeilge bhocht bhriste! ???