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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (March-April) » Archive through April 11, 2007 » Idioms vs literal translation « Previous Next »

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 422
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 04:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I know what the following is and have access to what appears to be a fairly free translation, but as I try to work my way through a word by word, literal translation, I get completely lost.

For example: Is fá in the second line a typo? If not, what does it mean?

It would help me a great deal if someone could supply a word for word version that disregards the music.

Thanks.

Sinne Finna Fáil
Atá fá gheall ag Éirinn,
buion dár slua
Thar túinn do ráinig chugainn,
fámhórd bheith saor
Sean tír ár sinsir feastá
Ní fhagfar fá tíorá fán tráil
Anocht a théam sa bhearna bhaoil,
Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil
guna screach fá l mhach na bpiléar
Seo libh canaidh amhrán na bhFiann

Ní maith é an duine a bheith leis féin.

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 103
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 05:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Your version is not very accurate.
This one's from Vicipéid:

Sinne Fianna Fáil atá fé gheall ag Éirinn,
buíon dár slua thar toinn do ráinig chugainn,
Fé mhóid bheith saor, seantír ár sinsear feasta
Ní fhágfar fén tíorán ná fén tráill.
Anocht a théam sa bhearna bhaoil,
Le gean ar Ghaeil, chun báis nó saoil
Le gunna scréach, fé lámhach na bpiléar
Seo libh canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann.


Standard Irish is younger than that song. It's Munster Irish.

Fé (also. fá) = faoi = under, fé gheall = under vow > pledged (to)
do ráinig = reached, came
anocht a théam = anocht a théimis (tonight let's go!)
canaídh = canaígí = sing you!

Lars

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1600
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 05:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Théam is not an imperative but a present habitual, I think: tonight we go

canaigí instead of canaígí because the verb is "can".

fé = faoi in Munster Irish

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 423
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 04:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agaibh a Lars agus Lughaidh. The Wikopedia source is very helpful.

Ní maith é an duine a bheith leis féin.

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Domhnall
Member
Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 935
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 05:05 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Uaireanta, úsáidtear "Sinne Laochra Fáil" seachas "Fianna Fáil"

Nílim cinnte caidé is cúis le sin ach b'fhéidir mar gheall ar ainm an pháirtí polaitiúil atá sé..

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1470
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 09:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Uaireanta, úsáidtear "Sinne Laochra Fáil" seachas "Fianna Fáil"

Nílim cinnte caidé is cúis le sin ach b'fhéidir mar gheall ar ainm an pháirtí polaitiúil atá sé..

Féidir rá go dtugann sé sin níos mó onóra don pháirtí atá i gceist mar a léiríonn an t-amhránaí nach cuma leis gur ainmnigh an páirtí é féin tar éis an ghrúpa laochra atá i gceist. Mar a deirtear i mBéarla, is féidir ladar uachtair reoite a thabhairt ar shluasaid, ach is sluadaid i gcónaí í.

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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Lars
Member
Username: Lars

Post Number: 104
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 08:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Théam is not an imperative but a present habitual, I think: tonight we go


I think, -am is an imperative, future indicative and present subjunctive suffix of 1st person plural.
Because of missing -f- I thought it is imperative mood.
But perhaps it is future tense: "tonight we'll go"
I don't think -am is or was ever used in present indicative.
Because of "tonight" it can't be habitual.

Lars

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Suaimhneas
Member
Username: Suaimhneas

Post Number: 258
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 09:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Seo libh canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann."

I have an American friend who, not knowing the rest of the words, only joins in on this line when the anthem is being sung. But she always sings the line as: "shovel Connie around the Green"

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1471
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:11 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Because of "tonight" it can't be habitual.

You're looking at things from a grammatical point of view... but the problem is there's no such thing as grammar -- we talk the way we talk, and that's the end of it. Noting patterns and constructing a "grammar" may help learners, but it causes problems when the system breaks down. For instance, the following sentence is future tense even though a grammar book might think it's present tense:

I'm buying the new Xbox tomorrow.

Of course you could circumvent this error by puting more stuff in the grammar book, e.g. "Present tense 'be' followed by an -ing word is actually future tense", but you'll end up with a spaghetti set of rules.

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 11:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ah, it seems the languages of the Irish and British isles seem happy to collapse to just an habitual present and past with the rest made by round about constructions



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