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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (March-April) » Archive through April 11, 2007 » I NEED HELP WITH A SONG!! « Previous Next »

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Chanster411
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Username: Chanster411

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 04:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Can someone please provide a phonetic translation for the song Suibne? Thanks. You can e-mail it to me if you would like at

(Message edited by chanster411 on April 06, 2007)

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Ceolmhar
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Username: Ceolmhar

Post Number: 160
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does the 'b' have a dot above it? If so, it would be written 'Suibhne' and pronouced 'swee neh' or even 'swiv neh'.

At a guess, it would be the Irish equivilent of the surname Sweeney?

No roads were elevated during the composition of this message.

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Chanster411
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Username: Chanster411

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 01:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

well, the title on the sheet music i have says Shivna, but when i listened to the song i heard them saying that where Suibne was written. i really need a phonetic translation for the whole song though.

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 06:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"A Bhennáin, a bhúiredáin, a bhéichdáin bhinn
Is bhinn linn in cúicherán do ní tú `sin ghlinn

A dhraignéin, a dhelgnacháin (dil, dol, doh, roh day)
A mhinéin na chonaire(dil, dol, doh, ray)
A dhriséoc, a dhruiimnechóc (dil, dol, doh, roh day)
A chaillech, a chuirrechennach in raga for ech ?

Is mé suibhne sirthechán; lúath reithim thar gleann;
Nochan é màinm dligthechán; mó is ainm dam Fer Benn"

What century is this Gaelic from? Is 'for' a preposition? I think a) you've been caught b) it should be first translated into something contemporary first, then done to English

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1598
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 02:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd say it's Middle Irish, but Dennis will answer better than me !

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5090
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Suibhne Geilt/Mad Sweeney atá i gceist.

We had a thread on this song some time ago.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 5092
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 01:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/T302018/

the whole thing in english

and the original

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G302018/index.html

scaip riverdance an scéal, is cosúil.

look for pg 65 in the english.

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Chanster411
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Username: Chanster411

Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 02:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ok people, thanks very much for all of you help, but what i need is a phonetic translation. i don't need the actual words to the song or the english translation. i've got the sheet music with the words on it, i have to sing it for a class, but i don't know how to pronounce the words. if you've ever read through a textbook for a class and there was a difficult word they usually put in parentheses() how to pronounce it...i need that part so i can pronounce the words. thanks so much for all your help though, and thanks to anyone who can help me with this.

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Chanster411
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Username: Chanster411

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 02:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

THE TITLE ON THE SHEET MUSIC IS SHIVNA, AND THE WORD THEY HAVE IN THE SONG IS SPELLED SUIBNE...NO "H"

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 03:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"don't know how to pronounce the words"

None of us were alive centuries ago, so we dont know. The idea of singing in English such a song is hilarious. Many of the words are now shortened; some of them no doubt were different even when it was written, as the orthography might have been artificial. I dont think scribal standard middle Irish ever really existed as a real spoken form.

"SUIBNE...NO "H""

Well it has a bh in speech, that's what people mean. bh here would be like v, not b, that's for sure.

"a phonetic translation"

The best you can home for is a broader phonological one, and based on that, some sort of newspaper phonetics. However, it will bear little relation to the original.

IT is a very specialist answer to a simple question. Since the Riverdance people hardly bothered to do historic dectective work, I'd say they just read it in situ. Noone will notice the difference

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 133
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 04:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I happen to know a native speaker from Munster whose last name is Suibhne. To my ear, he says his name something like, "SEE-nyi" - with the stress on the first syllable and maybe a very slight "uh" sound after the "S" and before the "EE" sound. The "e" at the end of his name is pronounced somewhat like the "i" sound in the word "bit".

Of course, my friend speaks Modern Irish, so I have no idea how his name would have been pronounced centuries ago in Middle Irish.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1602
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 06:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"bh" is often not pronounced between vowels in Munster Irish, that's why they say "Suíne" for "Suibhne". In the other provinces, people would pronounce the bh: /siv'n'@/.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

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Scathach
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Username: Scathach

Post Number: 83
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 06:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Lughaidh,

Tá an caid agat ar an bpoínte sin.

Ar aon nós, beannachtaí na Cásca oraibh go léir. Go mbeirfimid beo ag an am seo arís, le cúnamh Dé.

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 134
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 08:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a Lughaidh! Your post was informative, as always.

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 06:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

OK, in the name of 'service' here is an attempt at the first verse!

ah vennawn, ah woorrdawin, ah vayiksahdawn vinn
as vinn lyin ah kooikszrawnn da nyi too syin ylyinn

ə vʲan̪ˠɑːn, ə βuːɼəd̪ˠɑːn/ βuːrd̪ˠɑːn, a v΄eːçəd̪ˠɑːn v΄iɲ
əs̪ˠ v΄iɲ ʎiɲ ən kˠuːçɼːɑːn̪ˠ d̪ˠə ɲiː t̪ˠuː ʃʲ̪iɲ jʎiɲ

As you can see, English is not suitable for a transcription -to top it up, once an american mouth sings it...

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 06:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"bh" is often not pronounced between vowels in Munster Irish, that's why they say "Suíne" for "Suibhne". In the other provinces, people would pronounce the bh: /siv'n'@/

Irish must tend to shifting sounds up the hierarcy of sonorancy, or at least a certain distance; 'friction' sounds (fricatives) like bh, f, th, h (in Conemara) gh, ch seem to wear away between vowels all the time (lam -->lámh -->lá; maith -->ma; deartháir -->dreár)

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Hscottgraves
Member
Username: Hscottgraves

Post Number: 13
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 04:30 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A chara Chanster411,

I'm having trouble finding a recording of this via Google or Amazon US.

I half wonder if forum folks on trad or folk sites like http://www.mudcat.org/ might be of some help. I did a search their and found that someone thought that Mad Sweeney was cursed by the monk Ronan. This may be zero help to you, but these folks might respond if you make a post there. Another forum I might try (long shot) would be www.midwestirishradio.com. Their membership is new, but vital.

I'd also be curious if peer-to-peer programs like Limewire might give you any hits.

Clearly you are breaking ground on this one:)



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