I have the unfortunate impression that my post will scare away people...

But anyways, maybe someone knowledgeable here can help me with this question.

I'm presently studying with the book Learning Irish which is in the Cois Fhairrge dialect from Connacht. My problem is with the pronouncing of slender l' & n' when inside a word and not written double.

Here's what I already know about the sonorants:

Apparently there are two different kinds of "l" & "n" in Conamara Irish:

1. L & N can both be broad and slender (written thus L' N' when slender). They are as in the words: balla, ceann and leabhar, fuinneoig, níl.

2. l' & n' however are always considered slender and don't have a broad equivalent. They are as in the words: eile, cupáin, asail.

so we can resume it to this:

BROAD / SLENDER

L N / L' N'
... / l' n'

So my question is, how do you pronounce l' & n' correctly. No matter how many times I've listened to the tapes I never quite get it. Whenever l' or n' is near for example an 'á' (as in cupáin) they sound exactly the same to me as both L' & N' (as in Spáinn). Also the n' in the word 'duine' simply sounds to me like that n in the English word 'nick'.I think it might be alveolar. As for L N & L' N' I have no trouble making them (at least I think so!?).

But anyway, how do the people in Connacht, make the sounds l' & n'?
Can you give me a description maybe how to place the tongue?

Thank you very much to anyone who's courageous enough to answer to my question!!

I'm sorry if I gave you guys a headache!

BYE!

A Angmar a chara,

There are two types of slender l and n in Conamara, which both correspond to broad l and n (i.e. to L and N). There used to be two types of broad l and n once, but they've fallen together rather recently.
As for the pronounciation, there are three possibilities:
1. the broad l and n are velarized (you pull your tongue back towards the velum, as when pronouncing k or g)
2. the slender single non-initial l and n are palatalized (the front part (blade) of your tongue is pressed against your teeth ridge, i.e. the part above your upper teeth) - the l sounds like the British English 'light l'.
3. the slender word initial or double l and n are palatal - they sound like the Italian gl, gn; French gn... You press the body of your tongue against your palate (as if you were about to pronounce the 'y' in yes, you...)

Historically, l' and n' are the lenited version of L' and N'. As I've already written, there also used to be broad lenited l and n, which sounded a bit like the 'ordinary' English n and l. Today, lots of people have merged these sounds and have only one broad l and n, and one slender l and n.

I hope my explanation is of use to you.

Daithí

l' and n' are plain -just the alveolar l and n in Hiberno English, but are situated in the Irish system as the lenis version of strong L' and N' slender.

Having said that, the l is liable, I think to get some palitisation -if you say 'dunkel' (the farmyard sort) it has a more palatal flavour/feel than l due (maybe due to the i). In Irish, it is 'psychologically' slender, moreso that actually so. If you force the l to be palatal it can sounds like the strong slender l, but less 'liquid', less 'warm'.

Just put the tongue to the ridge with no raising and it should do

Hey!

Thanks everyone, I think that pretty much answers it!
I'll go practice some more my gaeilge now!
bye!!

Angmar...

I know the last thing you want to do is spend money on a course you already have, but I was running into the same problem with "Learning Irish."

I found the cassette tapes were no help because of the distortion the tape was creating, but then I came across the CD's put out by Yale Press, and I took a chance and I am glad I did. The voices are a lot clearer on the CD's w/o the distortion and also the CD format is easier to work with.

If you are interested, they can be found here:

http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/book.asp?isbn=0300121776