Gaeigle Ráite Anseo - Irish Spoken Here. I don't even know in the title of my thread is grammatically correct, but it may be a sign (pun intended) of the times. On the Irish-only forum here at Daltaí, there's an thread title, "AN BHFUIL AN GAEILGE MARBH???" which appears to contain excerpts from the No Béarla project, where the narrator traveled around Ireland speaking only Irish while at the same time filming and recording the reactions of people he met. As many of who have heard or watched the program, we're familiar with the reactions of the people that were interviewed or were recorded, from some who new Irish to others who came close to violent while the narrator kept to his objective of speaking only in Irish.

So here's my idea: Here in the States we have folks from all over the world. One of the most popular languages, besides obviously English, in my area of the country (New Jersey) is Spanish. Many businesss establishments have signs indicating that they speak Spanish. Many of the smaller business, like my favorite deli in town which is run by folks from India, often greet and speak to the Spanish-speaking customers in Spanish.

So why not in Ireland? What about having signs in business establishments, large and small, that indicate that they speak Irish? Of course I'm not recommending the idea for businesses that don't speak Irish, since that wouldn't make any sense. But for those businesses that speak a smattering or more of Irish, wouldn't a simple sign like "Gaeigle Ráite Anseo" help to re-establish the use of Irish? Since every school child in Ireland since about the 1920's has taken Irish for all of their primary and secondary schooling years, the idea should work at least in a small part. And the business don't have to have EVERYONE that works there speak Irish for this signage idea to work. Maybe it's just one or two people that do. That would make the idea feasible.

To say that the Irish in general don't have the sufficient competency to speak Irish, I think that's a lot of blarney. There are many times I'll meet with someone from Ireland and they'll claim they don't speak or understand Irish. But the moment I start speaking in Irish with them, they understand me completely and are able to communicate back to me in Irsh. So I think the problem lies not in whether the Irish have sufficient competency in Irish, but in their willingness or concern that their use of Irish will not be accepted.

Well, gotta go - need to work on the format of the sign, but would appreciate advice on better wording, if needed, than "Gaeilge Ráite Anseo ," perhaps Deirinn Muid as Gaeilge or Tá Gaeilge Againn?

Mac Léinn Comharthaí

"Gaeilge agus Fáilte" an fógra a chonaic mé in Éirinn.

"Gaeilge agus Fáilte" a fheictear (uaireanta) i siopaí in Éirinn. Tá an fógra atá uait ann cheana féin. Is inmholta an rud é an teanga seo a fhoghlaim, a Mhack, ach fainic an rud atá á dhéanamh agat anseo: "What the Irish ought to do to save the language is _____!"

"Gaeilge agus Fáilte." An bhuil an fógra sin coimín in Éirinn?

Mac Léinn Fógraí

A Dennis,

Thanks for your input regarding the signs, but your remark ach fainic an rud atá á dhéanamh agat anseo: "What the Irish ought to do to save the language is _____!" if I understand correctly, means watch out for the thing you do here, as in what the Irish ought to do.

Dennis, I will do and say as I please, and I don't appreciate your attempts at controlling what I have to say; it is not your place to do so! We already have a forum moderator, so why don't you limit your roles to forum contributor and teacher par excellence? I think I have every right to comment and suggest on improvements that the Irish can make to their language. After all, is Éirinnach mé freisin! Someday I plan on moving back to the land of my ancestors, and I would like the rest of the Irish citizens to be completely fluent and willing to converse in Irish by the time I get there.

By the way, even if I were not an Irish citizen, I would still have the right to comment on how the Irish can improve the language situation there. I think every member and other contributor has that same right, and would appreciate hearing from them on their thoughts and comments on this subject.

(Message edited by mac_léinn on March 03, 2007)

quote:

After all, is Éireannach mé freisin!

Tá pas agat, mar sin. Ach tá tú ag smaoineamh mar Mheiriceánach. Is dóigh linn anseo go bhfuil Yankee ingenuity níos fearr ná rud ar bith ar domhan. Ní bhíonn sé sin fíor go minic sa lá atá inniu ann. Tá daoine eile, na hÉireannaigh ina measc, in ann fadhbanna a fhuascailt dóibh féin ina saol féin. Bhí do mholadh faoi na fógraí saghas "uasal le híseal" agus beagáinín díomasach. "Déanann muid an rud cliste seo! Hey, is féidir linn an rud NUA seo a mhúineadh do na natives agus beidh siad níos fearr dá bharr! IRISH IS SAID HERE." Ahem. Níl a fhios agam an bhfuil tú ar an gclár plé seo le fada, ach is minic a tháinig duine ar bheagán Gaeilge chugainn le comhairle a leasa a thabhairt do na Gaeilgeoirí. Más mian leat an teanga a neartú, lean ort ag cur snas ar do chuid Gaeilge. Tá sé sin thar a bheith tábhachtach, duitse agus dúinne; i bhfad níos tábhachtaí ná na schemes and bright ideas. Bhí chuile bright idea ag na daoine atá ag plé leis an nGaeilge, tríd an nGaeilge, chuile lá.

(Message edited by dennis on March 03, 2007)

Mac_léinn, a chara, your idea is great but please don't turn on people (see "I will do and say as I please, and I don't appreciate your attempts at controlling what I have to say" above). Dennis was trying to help you. He is right; 'Gaeilge ráite anseo' really doesn't work. It means 'Irish is said here' instead of 'Irish spoken here' which is what you had intended, I'm sure. The language has its nuances that are not always clear from texts and dictionaries.
And it is true that 'Irish is welcome here,' 'Fáilte roimh Gaeilge anseo' or the richer 'Gaeilge agus fáilte' version is a more Irish way of expressing what you want to say than the more impersonal 'Irish spoken here.' Another option is 'Labhair Gaeilge linn' which means 'Speak Irish to us' or literally 'Speak Irish with us.' I'm pretty sure there are stickers of these phrases already available.
It frightens me when you change tone all of a sudden and turn on someone who is sincerely trying to help. It's also very confusing. I've seen you contribute so much here (it's really impressive) but you scared me away completely with the tone you used when you reacted strongly against a site I provided and referred to it in very derogatory terms.
Once again, it's a really great idea. Please, let's try to get along. Ní neart go cur le chéile. I hope people take up your idea Mac-léinn. It is inspirational.

Le meas,
Caitríona

Uaigneach fós amuigh anseo

Tá fáilte romhat arís a Chaitriona! It is so good to see you're back, and I hope it's not just for a cameo appearance to teach me manners as you see them. I very much appreciate your input above which has helped shed light on the various ways that a business or other establishment can use to welcome the use of Irish.

I especially like your suggestion of Labhair Gaeilge linn and can't help thinking back to the glorious past where in one of threads it was indicated by some folks that in order to be polite commands in Irish are always in the subjuntive mood. So, based on your advice from the past in regard to the use of mair, I'm tempted to think that your suggested phrase above should be in the subjunctive also. That is, Go labhraí tú Gaeilge linn? .

And yes, Dennis is right, when it comes to the Irish language and how to use it. And you're right about how 'The language has its nuances that are not always clear from texts and dictionaries.' It seems that every time I open a dictionary I think back to your words of wisdom, and I know and trust that the kind folks here at Daltaí will come to my rescue when I go astray. I hope that you'll also be here to save me from the evils that lie hidden within the pages of those dictionaries.

Go bhfana tú anseo a Chaitriona!
I used the subjunctive mood just for you!

I've been around for a while now changing my name with every post (I wonder where I got that idea from?). Since you've used the subjunctive, I have to come back if I can figure out how to do it. Gabh mo leithscéal. a Chaoimhín ach beidh cúnamh uaim arís.

Thug Caitríona cúnamh dúinn leis na hLanna sa Ghroup Project, i measc rudaí eile.

what about "Labharaítear (An) G(h)aeilge Anseo"

A Mhac,

Is maith an cuimhneamh é ach níl tuarim agam má tuigfidh siad d'intinn.

I recall that Dennis had said that we learners could try to translate what he wrote for the benefit of our learning. I cannot recall if we were supposed to wait 24 hours, so I hope he does not mind if I make an attempt now. Plus, I could use a little help. I have put my questions in brackets [?] and thoughts on translating his English terms in brackets too as a added bonus. Here goes:

You are [I looked up pas but I am not sure what Dennis means, argumentative perhaps?], that is. But you are thinking like an American. We suppose here that Yankee ingenuity [beartaíocht Poncánach] is better than anything in the world. It is often not true in these times today. Other people, the Irish among them, [?] in the problem to deliever themselves in their world [?]. Your praise about these kinds of signs were "noble of the lowly" and a little contemptuous. "We do this clever thing! Hey, we are able to teach this new thing to the natives and they will be better by far [to top]! Irish is said here." Ahem. I do not know [if? Dennis used the interrogative an but did not put a question mark at the end so I am not sure] you are at these board discussion long, but often people arrive at [come to] a little Irish [leasa - lios?] giving councel to the Irish speakers. If you want the language to strengthen, continue polishing [putting polish to] your Irish. It is that effort that will be important, for you and us; in more important than the schemes and [scéimeanna agus] bright ideas [idé geal - bright idea, plural?]. The each other [chuile?] bright idea at the people at doing with the Irish language , through the Irish language, each other [chuile ?] day.

I know it's choppy, so please help me to smooth out my translation.

Check this site out if you have not seen it for a few translations that I found helpful: http://www.leyline.org/cra/languages/texts/AtA_notes_1.html

Labhair Gaeilge linn freisin. Even if no one else does, we could wear the signs. Since you brought up the idea (or should I say idear - would you believe that a very fluent speaker at the Daltaí weekend who was from Cork said "idear" when he spoke in English and he was not even aware of it until it was pointed out to him?), I think I will wear the sign when I march in the NYC St. Patrick's Day parade next week.

Go raibh maith agat,

Maidhc

chuile = every/all

A Dennis, ní thuigim hLanna. Cen fath h os comhair Lanna. Agus ni fhaighim Lanna sa foclóir.

A Mhaidhc, nice work on the translation! In regard to time-control of translations, it was Aonghus that indicated that we should wait "four and twenty" hours before translating his postings, and I don't know if they apply to others' postings. I think Dennis' used the word pas for passport. That is, in reference to my remark in the quotation box, "you have a[n Irish] passport" and that's what makes me an Irish citizen.

I think it's great a Mhaidhc that you'll be wearing a sign in the parade about speaking the Irish language. It will also serve another purpose in that I'll be able to pick you out from the thousands of others in the parade now!

BTW, a Mhaidhc, when are we going to start playing "Where in the world is _____?" My two cents is we might want to use a name different than Carmen [Sandiego] so as to avoid copyright issues, but then again, ní dliodoir mise, mar sin nil fhios agam. B'fheidir, Cá bhFuil Mise?.

Scríobh Antaine: what about "Labharaítear (An) G(h)aeilge Anseo"

Is breá liomsa é! It's good to think of new things. I've never bought into the idear that "we've always done it THAT way." Maybe it's time for new signs. I think I'll print up a bunch of different versions, including Antaine's and take them with me the next time I go to Ireland. Another version might be Gaeilge Labhartha Anseo - Irish Spoken Here. Oh, and I'm sure they'll be people who'll think lesser of me for it, but then again, that's never bothered me in the past, and never will anyhow.

NOTE: In the beginning of the first posting of this thread, I indicated that I didn't even know if the title of the thread was correct, so it's good to see the much needed help in correcting my attempts.

Well, saving the best for last:

A Chaitríona, it's so very good to know that you decided to re-join us. I've always had this funny feeling that the subjunctive mood would play an important role in my life, and now I see it has.

(Message edited by mac_léinn on March 04, 2007)

(Message edited by mac_léinn on March 04, 2007)

Tuigim. "You have a passport." Níl a fhios agam cén fáth ní dúirt mé sin. Caithfidh mé a rá go raibh mé amach ag a lón. Agus, chuile = gach eile = every/all. Tuigim anois.

Cá bhfuil Maidhc anois? Tá sé ina chodladh go dtí amárach.

Oíche mhaith.

Maidhc

As I understand it,
'Labharaítear Gaeilge Anseo'
is the correct form of
'Gaeilge Labhartha Anseo'
if you mean
'Irish spoken here'
as in
'People can speak it here'
as in the Irish version of 'Se habla español.'
Sometimes changing things a little changes the meaning a lot. I guess it's somewhat like
'Spoken Irish, here' instead of
'Irish spoken here.' Tricky, ain't it?

re. Cá bhfuil mise? I like the idea. Do you need the emphatic or could you just say
Cá bhfuil mé?

A Tríona,

Thanks for the input on the sign.

A Chairde (including Tríona of course):

Although I like Antaine's version for the sign, I would like to condense the wording a little if possible. So, I think I have the order of my last attempt incorrect. That is, I think it should be Labhartha Gaeilge Anseo. I think that the use of the veral adjective might be correct if I put it first in the phrase, but would greatly appreciate confirmation or corrections. I would like to keep the wording as short as possible. I've also made an attempt at adding some flair to the sign, with a "callout" type border with a green background. Something tells me the color green would go well for an Irish sign.

I've updated my profile here so that my picture is now a rendition of the sign. Please note it's just a start. I hope my girlfriend doesn't get upset that I'm taking down her picture that I've been using here. I'm afraid she'll be green with jealousy! . It may take a few days for the picture to show up, so I've also placed a copy of the sign at the Yahoo! Groups website http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irishlinguistics. If you just click on this link you'll be brought to the home page of the group where you'll see a copy of the sign (membership not required). I would appreciate any help with ideas on how to make the sign more appealing, and the wording is still up in the air. Again, it's just a start.

P.S. A Tríona, regarding your remarks about the game "Cá bhfuil ...." I think I should defer to Maidhc since he came up with the idea. I see your point about mé versus mise. Maybe the emphasis should be on cá?

Whaddya tink 'bout dat, a Mhaidhc? I still like the idea of Cá bhfuil Maidhc since it's a name that is liked by all (except for a handful of cringers, is docha). But maybe in the spirit of the original game we should use a woman's name, so...... how about Cá bhfuil Caitríona? It even starts with the same letter, C!

Mac-léinn, a chara
I still love the idea but, unfortunately, 'Labhartha Gaeilge anseo' is still wrong. It doesn't make sense. I'm not making up the rules of the language here, I promise you. Changing the word order didn't fix the problem. For the '...is spoken' form you need 'Labhraítear'

The distinction is between
'spoken Irish' as in 'the spoken language' and that is 'Gaeilge labhartha' (it's not possible to change the word order of this phrase) and
'Irish spoken' as in 'people have the ability to speak the language' and that is 'Labhraítear Gaeilge' but, to be clear, you should follow it with 'anseo.'

Hope this helps.

Tús maith, a Mhaidhc. Here's the further help you asked for. PLEASE NOTE: I'm not doing this to continue the polemic, which is in the past, but to help you with your Irish, which is always my real goal here, and what motivates me to keep messing with all these HTML commands! ;-)

Other people, the Irish among them, [?] in the problem to deliever themselves in their world [?].

Tá daoine eile, na hÉireannaigh ina measc, in ann fadhbanna a fhuascailt dóibh féin ina saol féin.

in ann = able
fadhbanna a fhuascailt = to solve problems
dóibh féin = for themselves
ina saol féin = in their own world

Your praise about these kinds of signs were "noble of the lowly" and a little contemptuous.

Bhí do mholadh faoi na fógraí saghas "uasal le híseal" agus beagáinín díomasach.

"moladh" can means "praise", but it can also mean "recommendation" or "proposal", as here

"uasal le híseal" is a metaphorical expression, "noble with/to the lowly", that implies condescension

and they will be better by far [to top]! Irish is said here.

beidh siad níos fearr dá bharr

"dá bharr" is an idiom meaning "as a result of it"

but often people arrive at [come to] a little Irish [leasa - lios?] giving councel to the Irish speakers.

ach is minic a tháinig duine ar bheagán Gaeilge chugainn le comhairle a leasa a thabhairt do na Gaeilgeoirí.

"duine ar bheagán Gaeilge" = a person with little Irish

"comhairle a leasa" = good advice; literally "advice of his/her/their benefit" [leasa is the genitive of leas = benefit, welfare]

So: it's often that someone with little Irish has come to give the Irish-speakers good advice

The each other [chuile?] bright idea at the people at doing with the Irish language , through the Irish language, each other [chuile ?] day.

Bhí chuile bright idea ag na daoine atá ag plé leis an nGaeilge, tríd an nGaeilge, chuile lá.

= The people who deal with Irish, through Irish, every day have had every bright idea.

Tá decal i bhfuinneog mo phick-up a deir

Gaeltacht Bheag an Carr Seo

Fuair mé ó "An Spailpín Fánach" cúpla bliain ó shin, nuair a thug mé cuairt orthu.

Measaim go mbeadh "Gaeltacht Bheag an Beár Seo" feiliúnach i dteach tábhairne nó dhó in Éirinn.

quote:

ní thuigim hLanna. Cen fath h os comhair Lanna. Agus ni fhaighim Lanna sa foclóir.

Tabhair faoi deara gur scríobh mé "na hLanna. Is ionann é sin agus "na hL-anna", nó "the L's" / the ells" i mBéarla. Tá an fuaimniú céanna ag ainm na litreach i mBéarla agus i nGaeilge araon.

"I'm not doing this to continue the polemic, which is in the past...."

Tá fhios agam nach bhfuil sé ar d'intinn rud mar seo a dhéanamh, agus níl sé ar m'intinn freisin ach an oiread. Ach caithfidh mé é seo a rá. Is Éireannach mé agus táim i mo chónaí in Éirinn le breis agus daichead bliain seachas dhá bhliain a chaith mé thar lear. Aontaím le chuile rud a scríobh tú. Fós, tá a chiall féin ag gach duine. Dar ndóigh tá fabhanna romhainn amach maidir leis an nGaeilge. Is gasta í cheist an Ghaeilge. Agus níl na freagraí agamsa....níl agam ach ceisteanna.

A Tríona,

I think I finally understand and thank you for your patience. I kept thinking there was some way of getting the verbal adjective to work while at the same time I was thinking that the autonomous form, supplied by Antaine, meant only "one speaks." But now I understand that the autonomous form is the correct way to represent "Irish Spoken Here." So, I've made the changes to my profile, so hopefully the web administrator only has to make the change once.

A Chairde (including Tríona of course) I've also updated the sign at the Yahoo! Groups, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irishlinguistics in case youse are interested in seeing the latest rendition. I want to thank Antaine for supplying the correct form and also Tríona for her unwavering patience in dealing with someone like me who often "thinks like an American" . I also want to thank Liz and Dennis for informing me of the fact that signs like this already exist in Ireland. I think I'm a propagandist at heart, and so my passion for the Irish language mandates that I work towards the goal of helping to spread the use of the language, which at times, includes new things, and new ideas.

My purpose of this project was to come up with a brandy new sign and I sense that we have something that is genuinely Irish in nature, since I trust that Tríona has been able to confirm that Antaine's suggestion is the real thing. Before running off céad míle copies, I'll await further input from other forum contributors.

So, when it comes to this sign, all the credit so far goes to other contributors besides me. Well at least I can say I came up with the background color!

quote:

a brandy new sign

Sciorradh Freudach?

Under the rubric of "thinking globally but acting locally", here's the challenge for Gaeilgeorí atá ina gcónaí i Meiriceá agus in áiteanna eile taobh amuigh d'Éirinn:

Design light-weight products such as greeting cards, decals, and calendars that incorporate the Irish language and that are SO COOL, SO HOT, SO FUNNY that they find a market on both sides of the water. This is not an easy challenge! The advertising and design industries spend millions and millions of dollars annually trying to come up with projects that have that magic quality.

Expecting Irish-speakers to embrace a product that is amateurish just because it is in Irish is a dead-end. Shoddy, second-rate, boring design in Irish, whether it be book covers or signage, incurs the scorn of the anti-Irish and demoralizes our community. Fortunately, things are much, much better now in this regard than they were twenty years ago.

So, there is a challenge for the "propagandists" among us, but the bar is set high now, buíochas le Dia!

Go raibh maith agat, a Dennis. Cleachtadh, cleachtadh, cleachtadh. Bím ag foghlaim gach lá, and this is one way for me to build vocabulary and ways of expression.

As to the "signs of the times" discussion, every Irish shop I go into here in the states seems to carry the t-shirt with the Irish slogan, Póg mo ... Bart Simpson or some other rascal is depicted. Why, oh why, did it have to be that expression to capture the imagination of pre-teens everywhere? Oh well, on the other hand, at least it is Irish.

Le meas,

Maidhc

I hate to do this but
I can't read it clearly so I want to make sure it's got the right spelling. I noticed that I cut and pasted Antaine's wee typo above the first time 'Labharaítear' instead of the correct 'Labhraítear' which I used thereafter. I hope you used the 'Labhraítear' version but I honestly can't read the letters that small. Old age has caught up with me. I like the color too ☺

A Chaitriona, Dia dhuit agus failte aris. Nice to see you trying again.

Beir bua agus beannacht

indeed, a typo on my part. my bad...

Go raibh maith agat, Riona. I'm always 'trying' to learn new things and to find people who have similar interests and want to contribute something positive to the world. That's important for me.

"want to contribute something positive to the world. That's important for me."

Well now that you have settled yourself down, how about helping Dennis on his 'group project', especially as you have already jeered my contribution...

quote:

the t-shirt with the Irish slogan, Póg mo ... Oh well, on the other hand, at least it is Irish.

Mar a dúirt an té an dúirt, "Better bad press than no press at all" ? An bhfuil nath mar sin againn i nGaeilge?

Fadó, fadó, bhí mé ag múineadh Gaeilge in Davis, California. Chuir an rang ár gcuid airgid le chéile agus rinne muid t-léine leis an mana seo air:

Is briathar neamhrialta mé.
Tig liom mo rogha rud a dhéanamh.

Nooooo! Here we go again.
Ok,
What did I do?
'Well now that you have settled yourself down, how about helping Dennis on his 'group project', especially as you have already jeered my contribution...'
When????

1. I did help Dennis on the group project (not as much as I wanted to, but as much as time allowed). I worked for a while on the L section as Dennis explained above.

2. Please tell me when I jeered at your contribution because I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I can assure that I never intend to jeer, I don't like jeering and for the record, jeering is just downright wrong.
So what are you referring to?

Ní thuigim ach oiread, a Ch. Tá dul amú, nó mearbhall, ort, a BRN.

Maidir leis an nGroup Project, Liz and I (mostly Liz!) are now going through all the contributions, letter by letter, and trimming, pruning, fluffing, transplanting, and filling in. It's slow work and will take another week or so to complete.

Dennis just said that he doesn't understand either. I need an explanation please, a BRN.
A Dennis,
If you want to send some of the workload my way, I would be glad to help out as much as I can.

Yes, Tríona, looks like the sign has the typo also. I'll be updating it soon. And it is very hard to read. I should've realised this when I made the changes to my profile. I'll fiddle with the font to make it readable.

Thanks!

Ni thuigim freisin a Chaitriona.

Beir bua agus beannacht

A Tríona,

I decided for the time being to change my profile's picture back to ol' reliable - Thoor Ballylee for the time being until I can figure out the font issue. But I did correct the sign which is located at the Yahoo! Groups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irishlinguistics

If you click on the link above you'll be taken to the home page of this Yahoo! Group and you see the sign on the home page, so you don't have to log in or anything.

Looks like we both cut and pasted the same thing and that's how the typo made it's way into the sign. Of course this wee typo shouldn't detract from Antaine's effort, since with a little tweaking we've off to a good start.

As an engineer, I'm always amazed (and prepared) for Murphy's law to strike at any time, which it did here. In fact, I see Murphy's Law in action so much that I've coined a phrase to describe what happened here. From a minor typo, to a cut a paste, and then to another cut and paste and voilá - a Murphy's Law Trifecta! There's a saying in the engineering community that if there's a defect in the product, just call it a feature. So, I could have saved myself some time by just considering Labaraítear as a feature of Canúint Nua Gheirsí. But some might consider that a sign (pun intended) of a "shoddy, second-rate, boring design in Irish"

Ach is fearr "second rate, boring" Gaeilge briste ná Béarla cliste...nach ea?

quote:

is fearr "second rate, boring" Gaeilge briste ná Béarla cliste

Braitheann sé ar an gcomhthéacs. Ní cheartóinn do chuid Gaeilge anseo mar tá tú ag comhrá linn (agus tóisc nach bhfuil "FRC" ar do theachtaireacht). Ach dá mbeadh fógra poiblí nó suíomh idirlín nó rud éigin mar sin á dhearadh agat - do Dhaltaí na Gaeilge, cuir i gcás - bheinn thar a bheith sásta aon earráidí a cheartú. Tá droch-Ghaeilge le feiceáil fós ar fógraí poiblí in Éirinn, agus cuireann na fógraí sin na Gaeilgeoirí le báiní. Ní mhaireann na tuaiplisí is measa i bhfad na laethanta seo, buíochas le Dia. Thug Eoin sampla an-deas dúinn an mhí seo caite, fógra a bhí ag an Luas in mBaile Átha Cliath ar feadh tamaill ghearr:

Féachaigí an Ceart!

An bhfuil sé sin níos fearr ná "Béarla cliste" ??

No need to worry, Triona; my sarcasm is misrecieved again!

rud éigin mar sin á dhearadh agat agaibh. This sign was a team effort by Antaine, Caitríona and moi. It's a start and improvements and suggestions are greatly encouraged. As an design engineer, I spend most of my days working as a part of teams that come up with new designs and products. We often start with nothing and after a few design iterations, we have something of a start. Then we take it to a higher level of refinement, with a bigger audience of peers and others who can provide constructive criticism. Ultimately we have something that meets the end-users needs and/or wants.

I also worked in marketing for ten years and saw the same type of creative process at work. One of the most important things that we had to keep in mind, be it engineering or marketing, is not to get side-tracked by counter-productive attempts either within the group or from those on the sidelines. I'm very well conditioned to weather negative criticism, sarcasm and such, and I can only hope that Antaine and Caitríona don't get hurt by some of the remarks already made about this sign project and other remarks that I'm sure will come our way.

Sorsum Corda!

quote:

Sorsum Corda!

Ádh mór ar an bhfiontar, mar sin! Tá do dhúshlán tugtha: é a dhéanamh chomh tarraingteach agus go mbeidh fáilte roimhe in Éirinn.

Conas a deirtear "the proof is in the pudding" i nGaeilge?

quote:

"the proof ...

Cé nach seanfhocal Gaelach é seo:

"Is ar a dtorthaí a aithneoidh sibh iad."

BRN
You said "No need to worry, Triona; my sarcasm is misrecieved again!" with regard to your taunt:
"Well now that you have settled yourself down, how about helping Dennis on his 'group project', especially as you have already jeered my contribution...'"

That's not a valid explanation (indeed it suggests the fault lies with me) and I'm not worried; I am offended. It's not sarcasm; it's disrespectful at best and at worst, it's a false accusation that could damage my reputation.

I would like an apology please. It was way out of order.

It's not sarcasm; it's disrespectful at best and at worst, it's a false accusation that could damage my reputation.

It's both disrespectful and a false accusation.

A Tríona, It's sad to see such remarks made about you. You've just returned to the forum and I hope that this way-out-of-order posting doesn't deter you from contributing. You've been so helpful to us in the past and I look forward to reading more of your postings.

quote:

Sorsum Corda!

Dála an scéil, nach é "sursum corda" é?

"Tógaigí bhur gcroí(the)* in airde."

* Tá "bhur gcroí" agus "bhur gcroíthe" cloiste agam. Is fearr liom an chéad cheann.

Dála an scéil, nach é "sursum corda" é?

'Sea, ta an ceart agat a Dennis, mar is gnách - go raibh maith agat as an ceartúchán.

Feicim ag http://www.csis.ul.ie/focloir/

croí - ainmfhocal croí [ainmneach uatha]
croí [ginideach uatha]
croíthe [ainmneach iolra]
croíthe [ginideach iolra]


Mar sin, nach ndeachaigh croíthe le bhur, nó an cor cainte é?

quote:

Mar sin, nach ndeachaigh croíthe le bhur, nó an cor cainte é?

Ceist mhaith! Is fíor duit, níl aon locht ar "bhur gcroíthe" (all y'all's hearts, mar a deirtear sa Deisceart). Ach is minic a théann ainmfhocal uatha le forainm sealbhach iolra sa Ghaeilge.

Let me say that again in English, talking around the grammatical terminology. In Irish, we sometimes use a singular noun after "ár" (our), "bhur" (your, pl.), and "a" (their). I rummaged around and found an Order of the Mass from 3 Deireadh Fómhair, 1999 (!), a weekly leaflet which was arna fhoilsiú faoi choimirce Údarás na Gaeltachta le caoinchead fhoilsitheoirí An Sagart, Maigh Nuadhat. It has Tógaigí bhur gcroí in airde, and a little googling came up with similar examples, including both religious and secular:

Oscail ár gcroí, a Thiarna, Íosa Críost

Cá bhfuigheas muid gloine le h-ól
A thógfas an brón d'ár gcroí?

I have a feel for this, but no explanation. Maybe Lars does. And I'll check in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí after dinner.

Is cuimhin liomsa
'Tógaigí bhúr gcroíthe in airde,'
agus an freagra
'Tá siad tógtha(í) in airde chun an Tiarna againn.'

Ach b'shin i bhfad siar sa stair nuair a chreid mé san Eaglais. Mar sin is féidir go bhfuil dul amú orm leis an t-am atá caite.

An suimiúil a Dennis! D'úsáid mé Sursum Corda mar frása ciantréimhseach.

Scríobh Dennis: In Irish, we sometimes use a singular noun after "ár" (our), "bhur" (your, pl.), and "a" (their). Oh that's great to know that it's sometimes - another rule and variation to that rule that I'll need to learn. . But seriously, thanks for the info. It's probably not a good analogy, but I'll try to remember it like how we use a singular noun when counting plural things, like fiche ceist.

It's amazing how much activity and range of topics has been covered in this thread. I think that's a good sign (sorry, couldn't help that one ).

quote:

Mar sin is féidir go bhfuil dul amú orm

Oh, níl dul amú ort in aon chor. Tá Ord an Aifrinn eile agam anseo a phioc mé suas sa Daingean thiar sna seachtóidí (!!) a bhfuil an iolra ann:

Tógaigí bhur gcroíthe in airde.

quote:

another rule and variation to that rule

Tá mé díreach tar éis mo chuid a dhéanamh (prátaí mílse, collards le trátaí, agus arán min bhuí) agus tá GGBC anseo romham. Let's see if there is any joy there!

quote:

mar frása ciantréimhseach

Níor thuig mé é sin ar dtús. "Ciantréimhseach -- long-term??" a dúirt mé liom féin. Ansin d'oscaíl mé an foclóir (FGB) agus fuair mé:

ciantréimhseach, Long-time, secular.

Ansin d'oscail mé The American Heritage Dictionary agus fuair mé:

secular 6. Lasting from century to century.

ciantréimhseach = lasting from century to century

An focal atá uait ná "saolta" is dócha, nó "tuata".

Ba shuimiúil an excursion é sin!

A Dennis, looks like Murphy's Law applies again. Here's what happened: I wanted the word for secular, so I started in Fóclóir Póca and the first entry was ciantréimhseach. Then I looked in the Irish-English section, but didn't find any positive evidence for ciantréimhseach. I should at that point have gone another step further, because I had all my dictionaries with me, including De Bhaldraithe's which has the entries you suggest above. Then I could have cross referenced them to Ó Dónaill's. I would never have thought that "secular" meant "lasting from century to century" and that Foclóir Póca would make that the first entry for secular, when it's the 6th entry for people who think like Americans Tá brón orm faoi an mearbhall.

Lesson learned: Use at least three dictionaries and study all possible definitions and possible permutations before using a newly learned word. Agus ansin, is docha, gheobhaidh me é mícheart!

I try in my own small way to invite conversation at least here in the U.S. Based on the "got milk?" campaign, I found a similar font and made up a white on black (like got milk?) image, "gaeilge agat?" and have it in the back window of my car. Of course the connection to the milk pop icon would not work in Ireland. And, so far, no one's approached me with a "dia duit" as I've gotten out of my car.

My vanity licence plate on my Miata (Emerald Mica Green) is "GO TAPPA", my play on the Mazda "Zoom Zoom" theme. Couple questions from folks have given me the opportunity to discuss Gaeilge but no one (outside of a Daltaí weekend) has picked it out on their own.

I also havest the Daltaí proverb pages and stick a rotating selection as my corporate signature. I do get a lot of feedback on that. In fact an engineer of an opposing side from Sweden responded to my "Bíonn gach duine go lách go dtéann bó ina gharraí." He said he was the Cow coming to my garden when we set up an appointment at my lab. A professional and a gentleman, we had a good visit and he provided me with a Swedish proverb with the same theme.

It's come in handy when we've had some business partners visting the lab from Ireland. Right now I'm 1 for 2 with one visitor way more fluent than I but impressed with my effort and the other with no Irish. Also came in handy in my visits to customers in Ireland. While in one plant, unintentially slipped in a prhase as gaeilge, The technician, originally from Donegal, was more than happy to respond in kind. Was able to pick up quite a few new technical terms (now forgotten). Also word spread ahead of me in the plant as the curisoity of an American with Irish.

a Jreddington a chara,

That is really neat.

Conas deirdear "that is neat" i nGaeilge?

Beir bua agus beannacht

secular

"et in saecula saeculorum"

translated into english (using the english of the time) as "world without end" but more accurately "from this age into the next" etc.

quote:

"et in saecula saeculorum"

Quiz:

What common four-letter Irish word is directly descended from Latin "saeculum"?

saol?

quote:

saol?

Sin agat é go díreach glan!

Laidin > Sean-Ghaeilge > Nua-Ghaeilge Mhoch > Gaeilge an lae inniu

saeculum > saegul > saoghal > saol

"et in saecula saeculorum" = "le saol na saol"

Tá comharthaí éagsúla ag na heagraíochtaí Gaeilge difriúla...

Cailín ina suí in aice liom tá adhmad aici de chuid Foras na Gaeilge. Tá Gaeilge agam scríofa air.
Tá sticéir ar an bhfuinneog anseo le - Lá ar fáil anseo scríofa air.

Mo thuairim ná nach gcaitheann go leor Gaeilgeoirí an fáinne. B'fhéidir go bhfuil gá le suaitheantas nua?

Céard a cheapann sibh?
D

quote:

Mo thuairim ná nach gcaitheann go leor Gaeilgeoirí an fáinne.

Níor bhac mé leis riamh. Ach ní in Éirinn atá cónaí orm. Pé scéal é, is dócha gur chaill mé suim ann nuair a chuala mé gur bhaist Brendan Behan an Erse Hole air! Dá mbeadh rud eile ann, rud éigin níos outré ná lapel pin -- ordnasc, cuir i gcás -- b'fhéidir go ndéanfainn athmhachnamh air.

Aye a leithéid sin de rud a bheadh ar m'intinn... Más buan mo chuimhne, rinne mo dhuine lánseáil ar bóín mhac dé (ladybird) gaelach tamall ó shin, ach níor tháinig mé féin air riamh..

Tatú ar do láimh nó colm ar chlár d'éadain a éiríonn te nuair a thagann Gaeilgeoir eile i do ghaobhar? (pace Harry Potter)

Nó rud éigin cosúil leis an Yenta 650 sa scannán Shortbus? ;-)