Are there opportunities for foreigners to come to Ireland to learn Irish? Is there any sort of grants, loans, aid, work-study, etc. to do so?

If so, how do I get the info?

I know that it is difficult for an American to get permission to live in Ireland unless they are considered to be of value in a job position or unless they marry an Irish person (my preferred method of future entry :)) or if they study abroad there. However if you are in the EU then you can pretty much just go there, from what I've heard which may be faulty information since I'm not privvy to most knowledge in the world. Lets see if someone else more clever than me will comment now that your thread is up at the top of the list again.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Scríobh Riona: However if you are in the EU then you can pretty much just go there..

Sílim go bhfuil an ceart agat, a Ríona, ach níl mé níos cliste ná thú.(I think that you are correct Ríona, but I am not more clever than you). As I understand it, a citizen of member countries of the (EU) European Union can live and work in other EU countries. I've seen job postings in Ireland that indicate that a valid passport from an EU member country is a necessary and sufficient condition to meet residency requirements.

Options for students may be different though, and I'm not familiar with grants, etc. Go n-éirí an t-adh leat a Dan. (Good luck to you Dan)

quote:

However if you are in the EU then you can pretty much just go there

Only if you are an EU citizen. An American legally resident in the UK will not be entitled to go to Ireland except on the same terms as any other US citizen.

Confounded, the cards are stacked against me to be sure. I have nearly no way of living there even though I care more about Ireland itself than some of the people from the EU who go there to work. :(

I know I'll be regreting that statement due to some social chidings that will probably occurr here soon but I need to get some aggression and irritation about the situation out. ...

Beir bua agus beannacht

Dan

Are you entitled to hold an Irish passport? If so that would make entry a doddle. Check out your entitlement here:

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=267#ent

I've been going through much the same thing, Ríona...short of

a) getting permission to live in Ireland for more than 5 years because of some fantastic quality I have to offer some essential career that no other EU citizen can do

or

b) marrying an Irish citizen (and Ireland now draws a distinction between "Irish citizens" and "Irish citizens born on the island of Ireland" for some citizenship purposes. I'm not sure if it applies to the marriage clause, but I know it applies to children born to an Irish citizen in another country)

I can find no way. Even a 5 year student visa won't do it, since at least one of the five years in a ten year period must be as other than a student.

Also, and I wrote to the US gov't on this one, despite what many Americans have been led to believe, the US does not recognize dual-citizenship. There is a distinction between gaining citizenship in another country in an "involuntary" way and applying for citizenship. Applying (successfully) for foreign citizenship qualifies as a de facto renunciation of your US citizenship. Irish citizenship is not automatic and would require an active application process. While the government of Ireland would recognize dual citizenship with the US, should the US gov't find that you successfully applied for a foreign citizenship you'd lose your US citizenship. To regain it you'd have to undergo a process that would involve renouncing all foreign citizenships.

When studying at Oideas Gael a few years back, I met a number of young Irish people who were there to improve their Irish-language skills so that they could become teachers. Some had just graduated from teaching colleges and one fellow was a software engineer looking to become a teacher.

So my question: Is there a shortage of teachers in Ireland who are sufficiently fluent in Irish? And if so, might that be the way for folks like Ríona or Antaine to become Irish citizens - by becoming teachers if they so desire?

(Tá aithne agam gur muinteoir é Antaine an cheanna féinn)

I felt that would be my best chance, as it is unlikely that even highly qualified teachers and professors from throughout the eu are not very likely to be fluent in Irish. That may then constitute one of the few instances where an American might have a reasonable expectation of being more qualified than other non-Irish, EU citizens.

To apply for citizenship after 5 years of continuous residence in Ireland however would involve renouncing my US citizenship either actively (by going to a US embassy and formally renouncing it) or passively (simply by applying successfully for Irish citizenship). My understanding is that the Irish gov't would not provide notification to the US gov't in that instance, and so I might be able to continue with both "under the radar" as long as the US gov't didn't find out...however, if they ever did I'd be screwed.

I think my optimal circumstance would be to move there as a teacher, and eventually settle down with a nice Irish girl. Our children would therefore hold dual citizenship since any child of mine born anywhere in the world is automatically a US citizen and any child born in Ireland to "an Irish citizen born on the island of Ireland" (or her islands) is automatically an Irish citizen without having to apply for it both citizenships would function simultaneously...one of the few instances allowing dual citizenship by the US (involuntary citizenship I explained above).

A Antaine a chara,

I like your plan and I'd probably want to do something similar in the manner of keeping my US citizenship and marrying an Irish man and staying in Ireland. The problem with this is that it is so very unlikely since I'd have to live there first before I could find someone to marry, the paradox of it all.

The whole situation just annoys me and that is the all of it.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Scríobh Ríona: The problem with this is that it is so very unlikely since I'd have to live there first before I could find someone to marry, the paradox of it all.

Mura ni rachainn Mohammed go dti an sliabh, tiocfaidh an sliabh go Mohammed.

quote:

Mura ni rachainn ...

mura = if not
ní = not
rachainn = I would go

Feiceann tú go bhfuil fadhb leis an abairt sin!

Mura rachaidh M. go dtí an sliabh....


(Message edited by dennis on February 20, 2007)

The Irish Govt certainly wouldn't pay you to come and learn Gaeilge...

Plenty have learned Gaeilge without having set foot in Ireland..why don't you learn it there and then perfect it on a holiday to a gaeltacht?

From what i've seen Americans get treated like gods in the universities (that's what's to be expected with the amount they pay)

GRMA a Dennis. Tá, agus is maith liom é a scríobh arís, ach i dtosach, caithfidh mé deireadh a chur le litir S

Mac Léinn Na Litreacha S

A Dhomhnail a chara,

Hmmmm, maybe if I bribe the Irish government they'll let me come to live, even though I happen to not be particularly good at anything. The only problem is that I don't have a bit of money, so much for that plan. :) :)

Beir bua agus beannacht

Feicim ar http://www.csis.ul.ie/focloir/

M. COINN.
rachainn
rachfá
rachadh sé
rachadh sí
rachaimis
rachadh sibh
rachaidís
Sb.
rachfaí

Mar sin,

Mura rachadh M. go dtí an sliabh, tiocfaidh an sliabh go M?

Sílim go bhuil an modh coinniollach is fearr deacra!

Tusa bocht Ríona!!

A Dhomhnail a chara,

Sure and I supposed I asked for it :) I probably shouldn't have whined here, but it really does irritate me. Anyway I must tell you that I enjoy your touches of sarcasm and I hope you are having a nice day.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Below is a link to a page on the U.S. State Department's website commenting on dual nationality. Even this from the department itself leaves things a little vague.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

However, if you file for registration in An Leabhar Taifedta Breitheanna Cogríche (The Foreign Births Entry Book) you would not endanger your U.S. citizenship. In this case you are not "applying" for Irish citizenship. Registration just acknowledges and documents that you have been an Irish citizen since birth. Once you have your certificate, you can then submit it for issuance of a passport. It is the equivalent of a birth certificate for passport applications.

Unlike an immigrant, you don't have to prove special skills or other qualifications. There's no judgment calls by the Irish government as to whether they want to accept you. No interviews or investigation. If you can provide the documentation of your status, the registration is processed. Nowhere in the forms for this application are you required to renounce your existing citizenship. You are simply an Irish citizen born abroad hence the phrase "foreign births entry". You fall into the Irish equivalent of the U.S. citizenship classification mentioned earlier in this thread (A U.S. citizen, born in Ireland of a U.S. citizen.)

There have been recent changes in acquiring Irish citizenship through marriage. Previously, after a certain amount of time (I forget the exact time) married to an Irish citizen, even if you both resided abroad, you could apply for citizenship. Now you also must reside in Ireland for a minimum period of time. If you do apply under this classification you are in fact "applying" for citizenship. This is different from foreign birth entry. You are awarded citizenship from the date of completion of the process, not dating back to birth.

in order to claim that way, a parent or grandparent would have to be registered as an irish citizen born in ireland before your birth.

For myself (and many others I know), my great grandparents were born there (for which i get nothing). Even if my grandfather (born in NYC) had filed for citizenship before i was born because his parents were born there, I would have no claim to lay since even though he would be an irish citizen, he would not be an irish citizen born in ireland, and therefore unable to pass that citizenship on to descendants born outside of ireland (like my mother).

Antaine,

Yes, unfortunately, you're a generation too late. Like a friend of mine with great grandparents from Ireland who went to graduate school in London and wants to find permanent work in England (I know, don't ask me why). He does have some other legal options he's working on based on obtaining his degree there but it is quite convoluted.

Looks like the best shortcut is still to marry and Irish woman or man. It gets you quick residency permission and eventual citizenship. The new rules require residency in Ireland but that should be no problem since that is the whole point.

Registration has been very useful to my cousin. He was working in Germany under the radar for many years. After foreign births registration he was able to obtain his Irish passport and the right to live and work anywhere in the E.U. It's allowed him to vastly expand his business now that he can "come out of the closet".

Though I'd like to live in Ireland and marry an Irish man, I don't know that I'd want citizenship persay. I would have a hard time renouncing my US citizenship and I'm not sure that I could be a citizen of the EU based upon my objections of aspects of it.

Beir bua agus beannacht

If Ireland is anything like Germany, then the required amount of time for a non-EU national to be married to a citizen and reside in the country is 5 years. It used to be 3, but I believe it changed in 2000.

Make sure you're getting marrying to whomever it is because you really want to be married to them...because that minimum period of time could get jacked up to 8, 10 or 14 years at any time.

I know you're all good folks, but I'm afraid of other people surfing this thread and not having the best of intentions, an dtuigeann sibh? ;-)

Méabh,

Tigim. Last thing we need is a new thread "Marry an Irishman (or Woman), See Europe". ;-)

Many years ago a fellow field engineer from Ireland married a woman from Taiwan and she naturally gained residency. Interestingly, this led him to find out that one of the "critical skills" that would qualify someone for residency was Chinese cuisine chef. Someone must have lobbied the Dáil for better General Tso's Chicken. Several of my friend's wife's familiy and friends were able to obtain residency that way.

I'm not sure where these "critical skills" lists can be found. However, you never know what niche they need that you have or can obtain the skills.

So start firing up that wok!

It would be interesting to see one of those skills lists. I doubt I have any skills that would qualify me but it wouldn't hurt to look. Too bad there isn't a website skillsineed2move2eire.ie. :)

Beir bua agus beannacht

well, you could always work your way through school in the kitchen of a chinese restaurant...then apply...

Aontaim leat a Ríona! I'll ask around - maybe an grál naofa can be found with some skilled Googling and asking "na daoine cearta" ;) Mar a deirtear: Doras feasa fiafraigh.