The grammar books are a bit confusing on the relative particles, making a distinction between direct relative and indirect relative, and I am nto sure when to use "a" and "ar" and "nach" and "nár". Are the following correct in Standard Irish (direct relative only):

PRESENT
The woman who cleans: an bean a ghlanann
The woman who does not clean: an bean nach nglanann [is this right? with eclipsis and all?]
PAST
The woman who cleaned: an bean a ghlan
The woman who didn't clean: an bean nár ghlan [with nár???]
PAST HABITUAL
The woman who used to clean: an bean a ghlanadh
The woman who didn't used to clean: an bean nach nglanadh
FUTURE
The woman who will clean: an bean a ghlanfaidh
The woman who will not clean: an bean nach nglanfaidh
CONDITIONAL
The woman who would clean: an bean a ghlanfadh
The woman who would not clean: an bean nach nglanfadh


So in the direct relative: the positve uses particle "a + Lenition" throughout, the negative uses "nach + Eclipsis" except for past which uses "nár + Lenition"? And "ar" is never used for the direct relative?

If you care to join the Cois Fhairrge group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coisfhairrge), someone has uploaded an Excel spreadsheet about that very verb.

I believe all the examples you've posted are correct, Kiaran.

> So in the direct relative: the positve uses particle
> "a + Lenition" throughout, the negative uses
> "nach + Eclipsis"

This is also correct.

> except for past which uses "nár + Lenition"?

This is correct, but only for regular nouns. A small number of irregular nouns go with "nach" + eclipsis in the past, for example "an fear nach ndéanann gáire".

> And "ar" is never used for the direct relative?

This is correct. "Ar" appears in the indirect relative.

Bean is feminine, so "an bhean" should be written in all of your sentences.

This is correct, but only for regular nouns.

Regular VERBS ;-)

> And "ar" is never used for the direct relative?

This is correct. "Ar" appears in the indirect relative.

In the preterite tense only...


Donegal forms:
PRESENT
The woman who cleans: an bhean a ghlanas
The woman who does not clean: an bhean nach nglanann PAST
The woman who cleaned: an bhean a ghlan
The woman who didn't clean: an bhean nár ghlan
PAST HABITUAL
The woman who used to clean: an bhean a ghlanadh
The woman who didn't used to clean: an bhean nach nglanadh (often in Donegal, people would use the conditional there instead of the past habitual, or the expression "an bhean ar ghnách léithe glanadh" = the woman to whom it was usual/habitual to clean)
FUTURE
The woman who will clean: an bhean a ghlanfas
The woman who will not clean: an bhean nach nglanfaidh
CONDITIONAL
The woman who would clean: an bhean a ghlanfadh
The woman who would not clean: an bhean nach nglanfadh

Yes, "an bhean". What a silly mistake of mine. I initially wrote "an fear" in all examples, and then thought the context demanded a woman, so changed all the fear's to bean's, so that's why. But I ummed and aahed for a long time over wjhether it was politically incorrect to cite a sentence with a woman cleaning, rather than a man, but decided in the end it was only an example sentence so it didn't matter... Thanks for your answer: I am interested to see the Donegal forms. A ghlanfas is the same in Connemara. a ghlanas: this is a ghlananns in Connemara.

Kieran a dúirt:

quote:

PRESENT
The woman who cleans: an bean a ghlanann
The woman who does not clean: an bean nach nglanann

quote:

Yes, "an bhean". What a silly mistake of mine.I initially wrote "an fear" in all examples, and then thought the context demanded a woman, so changed all the fear's to bean's, so that's why.

I laughed out loud when I read that, Kieran.
I know quite a few men who subscribe to that particular theory of housekeeping.

'Maith agat a Kieran. Buíochas le Dia the context doesn't demand a woman ach bhí mé sna tríthí anseo freisin.

Bhain sé gáire asam chomh maith, ó tharla nach duine des na fir sin mé, bld.

Yes, "an bhean". What a silly mistake of mine. I initially wrote "an fear" in all examples, and then thought the context demanded a woman, so changed all the fear's to bean's, so that's why.

Sroicheann léargas daoine éagsúla leis an aimsir.

Its all in the architecture -if you have a lady about, and she insists on crap like vases, flowers, china, curtains, dishes etc then she should clean him.

I know a fellow who had no curtains, and lived beside a public road for maybe 15 years till some woman, I beleive, came into his life. Curtains for no curtins.

I'm going to have MY house and HER house. My house, will have an inbuilt power washer in the bathroom, so a few shkiets of it will clean all. A funky Japanese razor-toothprush-comb-nail clipper combo will take of personal hygiene. One room with bed only. One room for work. NO TV, so NO Eastenders. Microwave blocking panels, so NO kRaCzy FRoG ring-tone or text-messages. All phone calls shall be dignified, voice based affairs, and shall take place in a seperate booth. Mineral spa and steam-room and massusse and face-packs ready 24/7. And I can wear a towel all the time if I want. Women think its 'unmasculine' to be seen that way. B****x. Was I born wearing a suit?

She can live in her own house full of junk, and nobody can say I am 'unmodern' for making her clean it, if it is so important

Kids? Live in the "teach an chrainn" of course, speaking Irish and holidaying in the crannóg in the middle of the pond

I nuacht eile, d'fhoghlaim an deifnid ar uamhach inniu, agus fuair mé eiseamláir.

Cionadh a dúirt:

quote:

I nuacht eile, d'fhoghlaim an deifnid ar uamhach inniu, agus fuair mé eiseamláir.

Cén eiseamláir a d'fhoghlaim, tú, a Chionaidh?