And so the story continues...

Beidh Conradh na Gaeilge ag eagrú grúpa le gabháil suas go Béal Feirste, Dé hAoine, 5 Eanáir, chun tacú le Máire Nic an Bhaird. Éistfear lena cás ina iomlán ar an lá. Tá sé ríthábhactach go léireofar tacaíocht láidir di ar an lá go háirithe agus iarrachtaí móra á ndéanamh faoi láthair Acht Gaeilge a bhaint amach don Tuaisceart. Má tá spéis agat teacht leis an ngrúpa seo déan teagmháil le Ard-Oifig an Chonartha.

Conradh na Gaeilge are organising a group to Belfast on Jan 5th to support her as her whole case is heard. If you are interested in taking part contact Conradh na Gaeilge HQ.

A Dhomhnail a chara,

Go raibh maith agat for letting us know, giving us an idea of what's happening with this situation. I hope all goes well.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Chuala muid testimony an cúigear póilíní a bhí i láthair ar feadh dhá uaire an chloig. Níor éirigh leis an príomh cheann dóibh ach bheith ag féachaint ar an mballa an t-am ar fad agus é ag caint. Ní raibh siad in ann níos mó ná 'aggressive body language' a cur ina leith. Chuir an méid a bhí ag rá acu náire agus deistin orm. Deirfinn go raibh sé deacair dóibh gan adhmháil narbh ann ach a rogha teangan a chuir lipéad an mí-iompair uirthi. Beidh deis againn scéal Máire a chloisteáil ar an 12 Feabhra ag a 2:00. Agus deirfinn go mbeidh an rud atá le rá aicise i bhfad níos suimiúla.

We heard the testimony of five police officers who were present-- they answered questions for 2 hours. The primary arresting officer couldn't seem to look either the judge or the laywers in the face, but rather stared at the wall between them as he spoke. The most their testimony accused Máire of, was 'aggressive body language' although they all admitted she had not raised her hands or made any threatening movements or gestures. I'm no expert on body language or law but I'd say the witnesses I heard had a hard time keeping from admitting that it was only the language she spoke that caused her to be arrested. Máire's side of the story will be heard on the 12th of February at 2:00. I'd say her side of the story will be much more interesting.

Maith sibh!

Raibh mórán daoine ann? Beidh mé ann don chéad agóid eile!

A Unregistered guest,

Tell us what happens when Maire gives her side of the story le do thoil. Go raibh maith agat for telling us what has happened so far.

Beir bua agus beannacht

http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=1609&viewby=date

An scéal mar a chonaic Lá é.

quote:

The most their testimony accused Máire of, was 'aggressive body language' although they all admitted she had not raised her hands or made any threatening movements or gestures.

Hmmm...aggressive body language? Here in the U.S., I don't think we have any laws on the books that consider aggressive body language a crime. Does anyone know if aggressive body language is a crime covered by statutes in "Northern Ireland," and what the penalties are? For example, if I were to make a grimace at someone, would that be worse than making a frown, and if so, what would the penalties be for the two?

Also, if body language is a crime in the northern six, which is the worst offence? I would venture to guess a shrug, nach ea? If body language is not a crime, then can't the case be dismissed via summary judgement? (Unless of course, the case is really about VERBAL language which then implies you go to jail for speaking Irish, even it the law allows it!!!)

Mac Léinn Theanga Coirp, aka Mac Léinn na Gaeilge

FRC-GRMA

Mac Léinn Theanga Coirp lol.. U really like changing your name don't you ;)

The good thing of course which this whole case has done is that the need for an Irish Language act in the 6 counties has been made clear. The discrimination has been shown and hopefully justice shall prevail.

A Dhomhaill,

'Sea, is breá liom a mhalartú mo leasainm. To me it's a form of that ancient Celtic, mythical morphing, but in this case with names. It also helps me practice the genitive case, which I think I get right about 20 percent of the time if I'm lucky. For example, I think I should have said Mac Léinn Teanga Coirp, with no "h" in "Teanga."

But, back to the subject at hand; you've said it best. This case is about abject discrimination. Could you imagine a bunch of big, tough police officers arresting a lady for the crime of "aggressive body language?" They should be ashamed of themselves!

FRC-GRMA

Ceart agat!

Now i'm not one for the grammar lessons but i think coirp is right as you don't have an/na in front of it.

I hope that the officer who arrested Maire in the first place gets in trouble for his unfair discrimination and pittiful lack of decency. For goodness sake the man can't think of a single thing, upon questioning of him, that she did wrong, thus proving that he arrested her simply for speaking Irish. I think that he should be punished in some notable way for his crime against freedom and his childish dislike of a language he can't understand.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Well the police forces in the six counties have been responsible for a lot worse but lets not go down that road.

It seems like the guy thought she said 'Tiocfaidh ár Lá' although she was just saying 'Tiocfaidh bhur Lá' within a phrase to her friends that was like 'ok lads, that's enough, your day will come. She wasn't speaking to him, but he took it personally and made a personal attack on her and her language. None of the other officers could agree upon where her hands were, but all said she made no threating hand gestures and that she wasn't threatening him physically in any way. The primary officer said something like she leaned her head and body toward me, you know the way women do when they're angry. It sounds as though one guy misunderstood and flipped out and his co-workers are all covering for him. I wasn't at all impressed with the credibility of their testimony, not that my impression counts for anything.

Bhí dream mhaith daoine ann, a Dhomhnall, ach sílim gur mhaith an rud é go raibh muid ann chun taispeaint go bhfuil muid ag cur suime ann agus go mbíonn daoine mí-shásta le mí-iompar na bpóilíní, seachas aon alleged mí-iompar Máire. Tá físean beag faoin léirsiú ar youtube, dála an scéil chomh maith: Féach ar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gju9iJNx4Qo

I'd have arrested her for claiming to be a native speaker, even though she had to go to classes to learn.

So sad -deserves to be locked up with the police officer

BRN,

get your f**cking facts right before you throw around statements like that.

A) She was brought up speaking irish
b) she took Irish as a subject in school, and Bairbre de Brún was one of her teachers.

How hard is that to understand?

quote:

It seems like the guy thought she said 'Tiocfaidh ár Lá'

I understand what this phrase means and that its not everyone's favourite saying in "Northern Ireland." Since I haven't gotten an answer (yet) in regard whether body language is a crime in the six counties, I thought I'd ask about verbal crimes. Is it a crime in the six counties to utter the phrase "Tiocfaidh ár Lá?" And if so, is it only a crime if said as Gaeilge, or is it also a crime to say it in English? I plan on visiting the birthplace of mo sheanmháthair some day, who was from Béal Feirste and I would like to be prepare myself for the different laws that I face when visiting. And since "ignorance is no excuse for the law," at least here in the States, I thought I would ask before embarking and disembarking.

A Dhomhaill agus a Unregistered Guest,

Thanks so much for keeping us updated on this all-important case.

Oh, ceist eile, is it a crime in the SC (six counties) to hum a song that contains the saying "Our Day Will Come???"

Our day will come
And we'll have everything
We'll share the joy
Falling in love can bring
No one can tell me that I'm too young to know
I love you so and you love me.

Our Day Will Come
Bob Hilliard / Mort Garson

Fáilte roimh ceartúcháin, go raibh maith agaibh,

Mac Léinn Coireanna Béal(nó Briathartha - verbal crimes?), aka Mac Léinn na Gaeilge

I'm not trying to be political in any way with this post.

Does the government of the rest of Ireland have any validity in the north? By that I mean couldn't the Irish government be on Maire's side and send a representative to speak out against the unfairness of the whole business. I realize that this wouldn't change the outcome of the case but it would look good for the government to stand by Irish use. But then, they don't really care so much about it since they don't ever do much pertaining to it.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Nach ndúirt mé féin "Tiocfaidh ár lá" agus mé i mo shuí sa Chongress nuair nach raibh siad ann sa samhradh? Bhí mé ag smaoineamh ar na mná a bheith i gceannas. Hmmm... d'éirigh chomh maith sin leis mo ghuí go gcaithfidh mé cuairt a thabhairt ar an teach bán freisin.

Go neirí leat. Ach seans gurbh i Condi an bhean....

(Caithfidh mé bheith airdeallach - tharraing mé raic orm fhéin anseo le nath dá short i '04)

Seans dá laghad tar éis an chaoi 'na raibh siad ag caint léi inné:

(Message edited by admin on January 14, 2007)

Caitriona,

What in the world does your posting above have to do with the Irish-language situation in Northern Ireland? Your posting above is purely politically based. Can't you find somewhere else to post your left-wing propaganda links??? C'mon - give us a break!!!

A Mhac Léinn, ar léigh tú an comhrá thuas ina iomlán, ón gcéad phost a rinne Caitríona? Lean gach uile phost de go nádúrtha ón phost roimhe, dar liom. Sin an saghas ruda a tharlaíonns nuair a dhéanann daoine comhrá. Má bhíonn sé i nGaeilge agus mura éiríonn sé ró-aighneasach, níl fadhb dá laghad agam leis.

An tuairim atá breactha anseo i nGaeilge, déarfainnse go bhfuil baint aige leis an nGaeilge.

Did you read the whole conversation?

On a board like this, I'd say that anything written in Irish is sufficiently related to Irish.

Abigail

Scríobh Abigail: On a board like this, I'd say that anything written in Irish is sufficiently related to Irish.

Oh really??? To date, with some few, isolated exceptions, this site has been a place where beginners and experts alike can come and discuss the study of the Irish language without dragging in politics, religion, and other non-language-study issues. But if you're correct in that all one has to do to qualify as "sufficiently related to Irish" is to have "anything written in Irish, well then let the party begin!

All that I, and probably others, need is the green light from this website's administration and I can provide more than my share of political propaganda.

I'll just make sure to throw in at least one line "as Gaeilge" to qualify, nach ea???

I know many websites, and I'll find many more, that will counter the type of site referred to in Caitriona's posting above. So, gone will be the days that we can comfortably discuss the study of the Irish language without the pain-in-the-ass politicizing, religious preaching, etc., that is common to so many websites.

Níor thuig tú i gceart mé, a Mhac.

Ar léigh tú an Ghaeilge a scríobh mé thuas? Níor chuir mé an Béarla taobh thiar de ach amháin mar achoimre air.

Ní miste liom é seo a phlé leat más maith leat, ach léigh a scríobh mé ar dtús.

You've misunderstood me.

Did you read the Irish I wrote above? I only put the English underneath it as a summary.

I don't mind discussing this with you if you want, but read everything I wrote first.

(Note: Unlike the previous post, the English here is an exact translation.)

Abigail,

I've asked the administrators of this website to clarify the matter. Based on their decision as to whether our views on politics, religion, etc. are appropriate topics of discussion, I will participate on this forum according to their decision.

Slán agus oiche mhaith.

scríobh mise

quote:

(Caithfidh mé bheith airdeallach - tharraing mé raic orm fhéin anseo le nath dá short i '04)

Agus seo againn an raic....

My fault.

I brought up Condi when Caitríona siad she visited the Capitol, and thought about women taking power. Since it worked so well, she was going to try it in the white house.

The rest, as they say, is history...

Ar an drochuair, ní bheidh mé in ann an t-ábhar seo a phlé leat go ceann cúpla lá. Bhí sé ligthe i ndearmad agam go bhfuil mé ag dul abhaile anois agus nach mbeidh teacht ar-líne agam arís go dtí an Luan nó an Mart féin. Ba chóir dom mar sin mo thuairim a scaoileadh duit sula n-imím.

Pléimid an aimsir ó am go chéile. Cén baint atá aige sin leis an nGaeilge? Ceadaítear é - spréagtar é! - toisc gur foghlaimeoirí iad formhór againn agus déanfaidh an cleachtadh cainte maith dúinn. Cén fáth nach ndéanaimís mar an gcéanna maidir le ceisteanna eile?

Ní cheapaim gur leor é abairt amháin a bheith i nGaeilge agus an mhórchuid eile ar Bhéarla conspóideach neamhbhainteach leis an nGaeilge. Ní cheapaim ach oiread gur leor é an teachtaireacht go hiomlán a bheith i nGaeilge, mura bhfuil sé dea-bhéasach san am céanna. Bíodh cuimhne ort go leagtar dhá choinnioll amach dúinn: "múinte" araon le "bainteach leis an nGaeilge." Má bhíonn comhrá Gaeilge ar siúl - ar ábhar ar bith - measaim go bhfuil sé bainteach leis an nGaeilge, leis an teanga á úsáid mar theanga, agus mura éiríonn sé ró-theasach nó mí-mhúinte, ní miste liom é ar chor ar bith. Mara maith liom an t-ábhar, cead mo chinn agam éirí as a léamh!

What follows is a fairly comprehensive summary, but it's an English rewrite, not a translation.
I just realized I'm about to go home and won't be online again till Monday or Tuesday. So here's what I think:

We discuss the weather here from time to time - what does that have to do with Irish? We do it because we're learners and we need the practice. Why can't we do the same with other topics?

I don't think it's enough to have a single sentence of Irish if the rest of the message is argumentative, non-Irish-related English. Nor do I think it's enough for the whole message to be in Irish, if it isn't well-mannered. Remember there are two conditions laid out for us: messages are to be both "polite" and "related to the Irish language."
If a conversation - on any topic - takes place primarily in Irish, I regard it as being related to Irish, to the use of the language as a language. Provided it doesn't get too furious or rude, I don't have a problem with it. If I don't like the direction a topic has gone I can just quit reading it.

Brón orm! Ní bhfaca mé bhur dteachtaireachtaí ansin.

Oíche mhaith agus deireadh seachtaine den scoth agaibh!

Technically, Caitriona's post was related to the Irish language in the sense that it was in Irish. So theoretically she had the right to post it. Does that mean I'm interested in looking at her link, no it doesn't. The thing is that people make threads all the time that I don't think relate to the Irish language and which I don't care to read. But they have been allowed to do so and thus Caitriona's post I imagine will be allowed to stay as well. It does seem that from what I've seen, things are left up here if they are in Irish, whether they are specifically language related and there are threads that I don't read due to content that I don't feel is enriching to me in any way.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Go raibh maith agaibh, a Abigail agus a Aonghuis.
A Mhic Léinn na Gaeilge.
Ní raibh mé ag súil leis an freagra sin agus tá ionadh orm fós. Bhí mé a' rá go raibh gach duine anuas ar Condi an lá sin agus is fíor é agus, le taispeáint cá bhfaca mé é, fuair mé link go CNN (an nuacht) leis an scéal sin. Bím ag breathnú ar an nuacht agus bhí freagra agam ar cheist Aonghuis. Is léir go gcuireann an naisc isteach go mór ort agus tá brón orm faoi sin, cé nach dtuigim é.
Agus ceapaim go bhfuil an-bhaint aige leis an díospóireacht. Ba chóir go mbeadh duine in ann 'Tiocfaidh ár lá' a rá. Níl dochar sa frása. Tá na daoine a úsáideann foréigean agus agus an frása ciontach mar gheall ar an foréigean; is féidir an frása a úsáid gan dochar ar bith leis.
Riona, a chara,
I'm sorry it wasn't enriching to you. I always hope we can learn from one another. The link was to a news item on CNN that explained the source of my answer above.
'Maith agat speisialta d'Abigail.

Gabh mo leithscéal MSNBC a bhí i gceist agam thuas.

My fifty cents' worth - even if it is in Irish, why local political matters of some countries (like US, Paraguay, Kiribati etc) shall be discussed here? Ain't there ENOUGH boards elsewhere? Why do Americans imagine that the whole world holds breath to learn what happens (or doesn't happen) with Condi???? Who is Condi? Ms Nobody for 6 BILLION people outside of US. So I would agree that certain people MUST give us a break.

The midterm elections are over, so if NOW American politics are allowed to flourish - then what will happen when presidential elections will approach? Shall we drown in propaganda pamphlets of some hyperactive zealots? There are many things I really care about - like climate change, tax reform in my country, other stuff - and I don't give a damn **** what happens in some LOCAL US elections. Some people are really carried away and don't notice that 95% of the world really DOES NOT CARE about a country with oversized opinion of it self.

Róman, tá tú fós anseo? Cén chaoi 'na bhfuil Kharu na laethanta seo? Feicim gur maith leat bheith ag úsáid CAPITALS fós. Is mór an trua é. Ceapaim fhéin go bhfuil sé cosúil le bheith ag béicíl. Tá súil agam go mbeimid in ann caint roimh i bhfad i nGaeilge, faoin nGaeilge fiú amháin, agus, le cúnamh Dé, gan na litreacha móra sin.

quote:

beimid in ann caint roimh i bhfad i nGaeilge, faoin nGaeilge fiú amháin, agus, le cúnamh Dé, gan na litreacha móra sin.

Did I bring Condi to the table? Did I? So don't be surprised people use capital letters afterwards. There is NO less relevant subject on this board as American political squabbling. I simple LOATHE the subject, and it drives me nuts!

That's just Roman foaming in the gloaming as usual. He can't make a point without 6 point letters - like a toddler having a hissy.

Is breá liom cloisteáil uait arís, a Lucy. Bhí tú an-tapaidh san Quiz sin a bhí againn.

quote:

That's just Roman foaming in the gloaming as usual.

Oh, really? At least I can speak about Ming china without lapsing into "abortion rights", "Condi grilled in Congress", "Christian salvation" and "voting machines in Florida". Get a life, lady!

"Condi grilled in Congress"

Is that like in the English Premiership league? That's what 'congress' means

Let's see. Regarding Condi, have a "crooks and liars" link from Caitriona. Then, we have Lucy equating Róman with a toddler having a hissy. Most, likely we have those of similar political minds who will support those who begin and continue political discussion on this forum. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out! But wow, this sure doesn't sound polite to me. So, I'm still waiting to hear from the website admistration whether politics and religion, are appropriate discussions for this forum.

A Abigail, I think you one of the brightest folks on this website (even if you're not majoring in CFD ), but I don't think you can equate weather with politics. I've never met a person who would take sides on whether it's going to rain or not, or propagandize on a dry and warm weekend - have you? Politics - that's a whole different subject. The same with religion and other subject matters. If the administration plans on , or currently allows political and religious discussions, this site is going to become very "interesting." I can just imagine when some Neo-Nazis, KKK members, and other extreme groups start using this forum to promote their politics.

I agree with Róman, let's leave politics, religion and other controversial subjects to the plethora of website out there for these purposes. But, if that's not the case, I'll be glad to throw in my political two cents when necessary.

Mac Léinn na...

Yes, "polite and related to the Irish language" is, and has been, the cornerstone of our board.

As has been noted above and before, we tend to give a much more expansive interpretation to the word "related" when the discussion is conducted as Gaeilge. We recognize that in order to learn Irish, it helps to engage in meaningful exchanges about something other than grammar and sentence structure from time to time.
To that end, we have allowed discussions to continue, provided they remained civil, on a variety of topics, especially in the Irish Only section of the board.

However, political discussion in our experience invariably leads to diatribe, frequently devolves into name-calling and produces little more than enmity. It has been the rare exception when it hasn’t.

So, to clarify our policy, feel free to discuss issues related to the Irish language in the Irish and English or Irish Only sections of the board. Political postings have no place here.

http://www.daltai.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/daltai/discus/discus.pl?pg=instructions#ru les

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Caoimhín