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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (November-December) » Archive through December 29, 2006 » Lazy Irish Speakers? « Previous Next »

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sinsin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 01:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Searching for childrens Irish language software for a month.
Also looking for FREE MP3 learning download....Nothing.

Plenty of Goverment sponsered bodies trying to sell Buntus.
Forums like this debating accents.

I am very disappointed.
A generation is being lost...again.

I can learn Lao for free (MP3) but not Irish.
Somebody help me please.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 4408
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 06:25 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post


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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 638
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 06:51 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

People are free on this forum to discuss anything related to An Ghaeilge..

Más Gaeilgeoir thú d'fhéadfainn a rá gur tusa an duine leisciúil!

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 346
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 08:03 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

A generation is being lost...again.



Seafóid.

'Rath Dé agus bail Phádraig ar a bhfeicfidh mé ó éireoidh mé ar maidin go gcodlóidh mé san oíche'


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Cionaodh
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Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 479
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 08:36 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I am very disappointed.
A generation is being lost...again.

I can learn Lao for free (MP3) but not Irish.
Somebody help me please.


When things are free, we often don't place enough value on them. If Irish is important to you, you'll make a small investment, as most of us have.

If you're of modest means, there are free resources online, and most local lending libraries will invest in a course or two if you request it. There are also tremendous bargains to be had on eBay and ABEbooks.

I suggest you systematically collect what can be had for free online, then see what can be had through your local library, both from their own shelves and through any inter-library loans that might exist in your area. Then get some suggestions from places like this about what things might need to be bought -- start saving for them whilst simultaneously monitoring eBay and ABEbooks for the titles you seek. If you're patient, you'll get what you want fairly cheaply.

Whingeing is not helpful.

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Kieran (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 10:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

There are various ways of looking at this question. While I think the Irish government could and should provide a relatively small amount of money to make sure a range of resources are available, multimedia resources often seem to be me to be for play rather than for real use as learning tools.

Besides that: it is not clear from your post whether you are in Ireland or not. If you are, then no doubt your child will learn *some* Irish at school, and some resources will be available for you in Ireland. If you are abroad: then you are not part of any "lost generation" - neither the Irish government nor the Irish-learning community owes you anything.

There are free resources. The BBC website and its Blas MP3 downloads form a mini course that costs nothing to listen to. The Pimsleur CDs are available, ahem, on P2P networks. I am not aware of anything *specifically* child-oriented for free download, but an older child might benefit quite a lot from Buntús Cainte and its bite-sized, grammar-lite approach, and I don't believe anyone anywhere in the developed world genuinely could not afford to purchase a Buntús set. Can you afford to eat in McDonald's - if so, you can afford to buy Buntús Cainte with the CDs.

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Domhnall
Member
Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 640
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 12:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Soláthar agus éileamh

Má chuireann Pobal na Gaeilge éileamh ann do leabhair Gaeilge beidh siad ar fáil. Mura gcuireann muid an éileamh os comhair an domhain cén fáth go mbeadh an soláthar ann?

Saghas - We have no right to believe that we will be handed out everything without some type of struggle/fracca..

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 03:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

All said, there isint a unified corpus of learning material that one can turn to. Learning Irish is like a medievil quest!

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Gavin
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Username: Gavin

Post Number: 77
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 05:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have to agree with BRN about there being a lack of "unified learning materials."

Althought I wouldn't go so far as to compare it with a medievil quest :0) I mean, while it is pain to look for, we know our "grail" is going to be out there ;0)

I mean there are a number of learning materials for Irish. And if you know how to search on the web, most people are amazed at how much is out there.

The problem that I see, is that the really good courses are not for the absolute beginner or those who are learning Irish as a second language. Those courses that are oriented towards usually the English speaker never go beyond the beginner level, and have very little support materials to reinforce the information.

A course which I have really come to appreciate is "Inis Dom 1-6." It was intended to be a standad primary course continually used for an Irish school in years 1-6. The idea I think was to have a single course that gradually advanced with the students through the years. However, for a course designed for such a young age, there is no English from the start. The pictures make it very easy to follow along, and there are CD's that give about 80-90% of the books material. But unless you have a more advanced speaker, or have an firm grasp of the language already...it can be very confusing at times. And I think the program was dropped, or at least I don't know of any schools actually using it. I know it can be bought at Litriocht.

But for the adult learner, I should warn you...these are primary level learning matterials so they don't often appeal to our more advanced minds. Having said that, I did a word for word count on the first book alone an found it introduced the student to over 600 words and did a amazing job at introducing grammar basics without telling you about them....and you thought you were just coloring ;0)

Each course gets more advanced and introduces more words while reinforcing the materials from the previous books.

It would be nice if we could create a more adult oriented course that worked along these same lines...one can find this done for just about every other language...including some very exotic and less commonly spoken languages...why can't Irish?

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 2072
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 08:49 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

we know our "grail" is going to be out there

"Dá mbeadh an cúrsa ceart ann, bheadh Gaeilge agam!"

An é sin do leithscéal?

Lazy Irish Learners a bheadh níos fearr mar theideal anseo!

Caminante no hay camino, se hace camino al andar.

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 118
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 04:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"All said, there isint a unified corpus of learning material that one can turn to. Learning Irish is like a medievil quest!"

This was well said! As I keep making progress step by small step, I am continually amazed that in this Modern Age of Fabulous Technology, there is still no "Irish 101" textbook like my beloved "Son et Sens" from high school French. (At least, I have not succeeded in finding one).

It seems most poblications are either blind memorization of conversation and vocabulary with zero grammar (Pimsleur, Buntús Cainte, Progress in Irish), or are grammar only, or are poorly slapped together (admittedly that last will be subjective).

The closest thing to a widely available, systematic, graduated course that I've come across is "Learning Irish," but that falls down for the many reasons that have been hashed out here already.

One of the best courses I've seen so far is online and free. What kills me is that there is STILL NO AUDIO COMPONENT to it. Aaaaaagh!

http://www.irishpage.com/irishpeople/

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Gavin
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Username: Gavin

Post Number: 78
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 05:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Domhnall...

Are you learing Irish, or are you a more advanced speaker?

The reason I ask is because there are a few secondary level courses out there that might interest you. They are "high school textbooks" being used in Ireland right now. The problem with these courses is that they are in Irish only...so they do not help the absolute beginner.

An dTuigeann Tú Anois É 1,2,3
Beir Bua
Draíocht 1,2,3
Foras 1,2,3,4,5
Gaeilge agus Fáilte
Is Féidir Liom 1,2
Saibhreas 1,2,3

It was brought up in another thread, but it might also interest you to know that there is talk...only talk...right now about the United States creating a college/univeristy level textbook to meet the increasing study of Irish in America. If this happens, then it might be more of what you are looking for.

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 121
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 05:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gavin, I'm afraid I'm really just a beginner struggling all on my own. I'm fortunate to have a background of foreign language study, which helps, but Irish presents difficulties I've never encountered with any of the other languages I've learned so I'm always on the lookout for something new and better. Thanks for these tips!

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Gavin
Member
Username: Gavin

Post Number: 79
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 08:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Don't feel too bad...most of us here at this site are beginners and still learning. So you're in good company :0)

All of the courses I mentioned above are like I said...intended for secondary education (high school). However, they are only in Irish. I would not recommend them for someone who is doing self study. But there are materials out there.

I know how frustrating it is...I myself have pulled out a hair or two trying to find quality learning materials. The problem I have, is that the American in my tends to see "quantity as a sign of quality." What I am looking for is what I have come to know here in the United States as a standard textbook...

hard cover
10.5 x 8 X 1 in (27 x 20 x 3 cm)
400-600 pages
Units-Chapters-Lessons

Basically something that when you hold it in your hands feels like something that belongs in a classroom.

Sadly...not much funding can be found for books like these. I am sure, more than one person has created or tried to create something like this for Irish...but the cost and market for such a product has kept them down.

That is why I think there is hope for Irish in the modern tech department. With education turning more and more torwards computer programs...it will be easier to design programs for Irish than it was to create books because the cost lies for the most part in the program design. Once it is finished, the program can be copied for rather low costs when compared to the mass production of books. Also, it it faster and easier to update a computer program than with books.

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Domhnall
Member
Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 642
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 03:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ollscoil Notre Dame.. They have a very progressive Dept of Irish.. Maybe you both could find something on that university's website?

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Gavin
Member
Username: Gavin

Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 04:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Actually...one can't.

When I was going to college, I wanted to major in Irish/Celtic Studies. However, given the time...it was considered a very exotic degree. Only a few schools offered it and sadly they were the most expensive schools one could attend. Safe to say the average college student couldn't afford to go there. (Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, Boston College, University of California Berkeley..."

But I researched all of these institution's Irish programs and I was suprised to see that most of them did not use textbooks in their classes. With the exception of a dictionary and the latest grammar book...class was taught by handouts (which gurantees attendance) and immersion with the teachers who were all from the Gaeltachts. This is still how most of the schools in the US like to teach Irish, but I believe this is because there is no formal "textbook" to teach from.

I know for a fact that the only Irish materials being used at Notre Dame right now are the Collins Gem Dictionary, Irish Grammar, and Turas Teanga. And the only reason they are using Turas Teanga is becaus of the DVD that comes with it...they also like to do translation work. If I am not mistaken they also use some selected essays by Nuala Ni Dhomhnaill. But that's it...

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Domhnall
Member
Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 645
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 07:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Fair enough!

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Hscottgraves
Member
Username: Hscottgraves

Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 04:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Still there Sinsin?

While it's not colorful for kids, my 9 year-old was able to use the free "Before You Know It" tiral version. It's a PC program and not specifically for mp3 devices (the paid version might port to it).

I'm a US native and find this tourist-level resource useful and it can be found at: http://www.byki.com/fls/iris/irish

I'm also intrigued by a Cork-based on-line school that offers a 4 wk (20Euro) and an 8 week course (50Euro): http://www.gaeltalk.net/ I hear that you can schedule time chat time with fleuent speakers from the west of Ireland as part of the course fee. They'll even wake-up in the middle of the night to service US-based learners.

As for what's the best way for a kid to learn? Well, I haven't mastered my own language but I think that any exposure to any learning resource, combined with positive parental modeling will have a great impact. Maybe you can circumvent the loss of his/her generation by making it a personal quest for yourself too? What do I know though. I can tell you that my generation is one of the first to go to college in my family, and nobody in my family labors on the railroads like we used to.

Maybe the goal of creating fleuent speakers of Irish in a land where English "gets you by" fine will take may small steps achieved by many generations. At least you're doing something about it!

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 08:46 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm confused; if it is based in Cork, why do they have west of ireland speakers on it? Wouldnt southern speakers make more sense?

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Gavin
Member
Username: Gavin

Post Number: 81
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 12:43 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I looked into signing up for GaelTalk a while ago also...I was interested in an online course that allowed me to chat with native speakers via chat room conferences.

However, I wasn't crazy about concentrating my studies with the southern dialects. I have always been a little partial to the western dialects because they are what every course I had been learning from were based on or leaned heavily on.

The people at the site emailed me and said they had speakers of all dialects there. However, the speakers are not physically at the location, they are people in the other gaeltachts who volunteer their services online to students like me who wish to concentrate on a particular dialect. But since they are not really at the site, scheduling can be a little tricky because these people are not deadicated to this service, they do it on their own time for the sake of Irish. (Which is very nice to know there are people willing to go that extra mile for you.)

I never went with the course because as I starting learning more and more...I realized that it was intended for people with no Irish at all. And a good majority of it I already knew.



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