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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (November-December) » Archive through December 29, 2006 » Would people mind if National schools became Gaelscoileanna? « Previous Next »

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Daithi (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 02:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I keep hearing about the growth of Gaelscoileanna and how popular they are in cities like Dublin, where Irish was been seen as a backward language. These schools are very fashionable. I personally believe that these schools are the future of the Irish language.

So, that said, would there be a huge outcry if all national schools were turned into Irish speaking where Irish is spoken in every subject? This would definately save the Irish language and would make it everyone's first language within one generation. Of course, these schools would teach English as well but Irish would be the main language.

The only problems would be:
Getting the teachers to be able teach in these schools.
Parents might be angry about education only being available in Irish.

What do you think, would it work?
Perhaps it could be done in phases.

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Kevin Zwolf (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 03:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

You're joking, right?

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Gavin
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Post Number: 68
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Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 04:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Daithi a chara...take it from someone here who is often debated with here.

I am usually the first person to attack the school systems of Ireland and how they are handling Irish...however, you have to remember that change is a very slow business...especially in Ireland!!!

Right now, Ireland couldn't support such a drastic change. It would require massive funding to aquire a teaching force capable of supporting an all Irish school, not to mention the cost and hassle of replacing the books. The sad thing is that most of the teachers in Ireland are not at the level to teach in Irish. They would have to have an extremely high level of fluency to teach the material, and most do not. So we would have to either take the time to re-teach the teachers, or replace them altogether. And now we are talking labor concerns...

Money is not the only problem, Ireland is still English speaking. If suddenly every school in the country suddenly changes to Irish, there are going to be a lot of people demanding to know why and what for? Roughly two-thirds of the country claim to not speak Irish, so they would have to be convinced that this is a good thing. And I don't see that happening without a fight.

You are correct in that Gaelscoileanna are becoming more popular these days. More and more of them are coming out each year. And in time, maybe all schools will convert to Irish...we can only hope. But it is going to take time.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 945
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 04:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"And I don't see that happening without a fight."

Any change or lack thereof usually requires a fight in Ireland. (see the discussion on Dingle)

The more the government tries to incorporate and support Irish, the more people claim it's useless and a waste of money. For example, the Irish gov't's push to get Irish used by the EU. Since it's happened, people are calling it a money pit, but before it had been done, they were complaining about the complacency of the gov't to allow Ireland the only EU country without it's native language an "official" one. There's simply no pleasing some.

I'm wondering if the best course would not be to have the government abandon all recognition of the language and abolish the gaeltachts. Part of me thinks it only half joking to say that would get the whole country to abandon english altogether for spite...

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 4356
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Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 06:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It's a nice idea, but gaelscoileanna are already stretched to provide sufficently fluent teachers for the relatively small number of schools there are.

Some gaeltacht secondary schools have been forced to hire english speaking teachers for some subjects.

It would be a good idea to encourage growth in the gaelscoil sector. There are some moves afoot to establish a third level course specifically for gaelscoil teachers (there is none yet).

http://www.cogg.ie is doing good work, but it is slow work.

You must remember also that the language commissioner established in last years report that only 3% of the staff of the department of education and science are capable of doing their work through irish. This is a department which operating solely through Irish in the 1970s - until the requirement for civil servants to speak Irish was dropped.

The department is on record as saying in relation to teachers of gaelscoileanna that "it is not the department's role to provide teachers to meet the particular ethos of a school".

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Kieran (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 08:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What about a more modest proposal? [And no, that doesn't refer to Jonathan Swift's modest proposal!!] Make all schools in counties Galway, Donegal and Kerry gaelscoileanna.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 946
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Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 10:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

why not concentrate it where it might do the most good? instead, why not make all urban schools gaeilscoileanna? that would allow for reaching the most concentrated population pockets in the most cosmopolitan areas.

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Gavin
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Post Number: 70
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Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 11:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It is not a bad idea Antaine...but again I see it being a problem of teacher allocation. A school with a large student population is going to require a larger number of teachers who will be able to accomadate them...and frankly, there just aren't enough Irish speaking teachers out there.

If gaelscoileanna are going to take over...I think their best course of action is to start on the smaller rural areas where it might be a little easier to convert to Irish, and then move inward towards the larger cities. Ireland is a small country, but there are still more smaller towns than there are big cities...

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Antaine
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Post Number: 947
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Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 08:41 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

true, but even if you could only do it in Dublin you'd have 1/5 of the country's population (or thereabouts).

the solution to Ireland getting people to achieve fluency and teacher qualifications is the same as in the US for highly qualified teachers to work in the worst inner cities:

pay them.

exceedingly well.


Set the pay high enough and you'll have prospective teachers clamoring to learn Irish lined up out the door. It's education, so it worth it, right?

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Gavin
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Post Number: 72
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Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 12:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I am sure every teacher and "would be teacher" would agree with that statement...however, they are not the people who do the paying in the end.

I am not 100 percent sure how Ireland does the payroll for their school systems, however, if it is like the system used here, then the money is taken out via taxes for schools along with government aid. If that is the case you would have to justify to people who might not be speaking Irish that their taxes are going up to enforce a language they don't speak...again that is a hard sales pitch.

If the government is one who is giving the money away, then they have to be convinced that it is a worth while venure, and then they have to debate it, and if they say "yes" to it...then they have to put their little spins on it to make it their idea and work out in the long run for them.

Now on the flip side of that...if the governement did come out and say "this is what's going to happen and that's that" I think there is potential for a great response. Yes people would probably complain about it, but if it was a country wide thing and everyone was doing it...they might be more willing to to roll with the punches.

I don't see the current administration doing that, but one never knows...

I fear that right now no one wants to deal with the struggles and conflicts they know would come with such a change to the system. The politicians are playing the "lets keep my job safe" game, and the people are playing the "why bother with it" game.

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Daithi (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 01:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks for all your comments. I can understand the problem associated with National Schools becoming Gaelscoileanna but it is the only way to make Irish the most spoken language in Ireland. The main problem is with finding the teachers as Gavin and Aonghus have said but with the current Gaelscoil generation wouldn't there be enough children going to these schools to train a proportion of them to become teachers once they have left school and of course as Antaine has said they would be the incentive because of the better pay. The arguments that Gavin made about how slow change can be in Ireland is correct but if the government makes it a long term goal it could be acheived. Some of the funding for the conversion of schools could come from the EU especially as Irish is due to become an offical language of the European Union and the EU's support of European languages. Antaine and Keiran's points about having it in specific areas would be a good idea to start with and then have a nationwide rollout. I also agree that there would be alot of argument and most of the Irish public would probably be against it.

Also does anyone have any statistics on the percentage of children currently going to Gaelscoileanna? Perhaps the government could aim to increase the percentage year on year until every child attends a Gaelscoil.

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Gavin
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Post Number: 73
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Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 06:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well I don't know about any actual numbers given for children going to a gaelscoileanna...but there is a good website dedicated to them if you have not already been there:

http://www.gaelscoileanna.ie

It lists all the schools for primary and secondary levels by region.

I found the number of schools for first, second, and third levels on the CSO's education section...

In 2000 there were 4,178 schools total in Ireland...and there were 4,140 schools in 2003 and that was the last number they gave. Which means 38 schools were lost in three years...

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Kieran (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 10:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Er... give tax-free status to people who can pass a rigorous exam proving fluency in Irish?

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Antaine
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Post Number: 948
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Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 10:34 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

the figure that i saw over the summer regarding those enrolled for this year was 31,000 for all gaeilscoileanna together (including secondary (high) schools, which had 6,000)

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Tomas (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 12:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I am not very well educated or familiar with actual Irish policy or schooling but the concept of switching language like that seems absurd...

I have taken spanish for years (I am American) in school. And I far excell my level, but if tomorrow I were told my school would teach only in Spanish I would not do so well. I mean I have tv and radio access to the language, I speak and read and write well enough to communicate but to learn?

I think that such a drastic change might actually be a hindrance to students. Subjects would become more stressful and difficult if they are used to communicating primarily in English.

Instead couldn't more extensive Irish teaching be done? Classes in secondary school such as Irish Literature (In Irish of course) and Irish Composition (extensive writing in Irish) and so forth? Or encouraging ideas such as grant money or extra points to those who can correctly utilize Irish in advanced level situations?

Sorry if I offend, or am mistaken in any way - please correct me


Thank you

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Kieran (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 02:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tomas: the answer to your question is that it would only work if a policy of immersion from year 1 of primary school were followed. No one is suggesting suddenly teaching all in Irish even where the students had had no background of immersion in Irish. It would work like French immersion schools work in Canada.

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Antaine
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Post Number: 950
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:51 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tomas - I'm a teacher in the US, and we do have a program called ESL (English as a Second Language). Basically, students with even no english take this class along side all their other english medium classes. No native language classes are given nor is any language but english spoken in the ESL class. Almost without exception, within one academic year the students are caught up as far as english is concerned, and didn't miss much subject material thanks to the ESL teacher helping with the work from the other classes they were taking.

The problem is, for most students - and for most practical usage - classroom teaching of second languages is next to useless both here and in Ireland. It's probably the least enjoyable and least effective way of teaching a language. Immersion is the "natural" way of acquiring language and the most effective.

The problems with that in Ireland are 1) apathy and 2) qualified staffing

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Gavin
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Post Number: 74
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 04:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

One of the stengths that gaelscoileanna have over schools that just offer Irish as a course is the reinforcement of Irish.

About nine years ago I sat in on one of my friend's classes while visiting Sligo. And I was surprised at how similar it was to the Spanish classes I took in high school (secondary school) here in the States. The teacher made them write down the list of words, give their translations for the words, did a lecture on grammar, and then had them translate some short stories in Irish.

Irish was my friend's least favorite course of the day. In fact, I would go so far as to say he actually loathed going there! He had this "I am here because I have to be, so lets get this over with" attitude. Which is how I feel a lot of students in the United States feel about languages because they think they have to meet the language requirements instead of learning the language.

But what really struck me was that there was nothing to back up the material. He never spoke Irish outside of class not did he ever write anything down outside of class.

I kind of like Tomas' idea about adding one or more reinforcer classes in Irish. It is an interesting idea that could be a stepping stone for the introduction of more Irish into the school systems.

For instance, the adding of Irish literature and composition classes might be an excellent compliment to the current program.

Right now, the current focus is on vocabulary and grammar...which are important...but there is little focus on practical usage.

Maybe if students were able to read "contempary" works in Irish, or have to sit down and compose serious works like essays, poetry, prose, stories, reports, and the like in Irish...they might see a serious need for learning the language???

I am not saying they don't do it already because I know they do to a degree. But what if it become a serious part of their education?

The translation/grammar class that is being taught now is great and should continue, however, once the students get to the secondary education level...I think the application of their knowledge of Irish should be the focus, and right now I don't feel that it is.

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Daithi (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 04:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks Antaine for the figure on how many pupils go to a Gaelscoil. That means that just 5% (only 25,000 out of 449,508 according to the Department of Education and Science) of pupils aged between 5 and 11 go to a Gaelscoil. This is a very low figure and there is a lot of room for improvement.

Gavin, regarding your earlier point about having to replace all the books, this wouldn't be too much of a problem as the parents of the child have to buy them so it would simply a matter of buying an Irish textbook instead of an English one. Thanks also for the link, I've been on thare a few times before.

Does anyone think that any Irish politician would back such an idea? Is there anyway to tell a politician about this idea?

Thanks for all your comments.

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 630
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Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 12:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Email a politican, or meet them one on one.

Although, i don't think there's much point telling a Sinn Féin politican, it is already Sinn Féin policy for the 26 counties not the 6 counties.

The biggest problem is there's no Irish language university and there's a lack of qualified people for the education of Irish as things stand.
Also the two main parties are far too conservative and have always been to try something like this. And something like this is needed.

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Wee_falorie_man
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Post Number: 115
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 03:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

...it is already Sinn Féin policy for the 26 counties...


It has been obvious for quite some time that Sinn Féin is one of the few political parties that has the political will to do what needs to be done, to truly foster the growth of the Irish language.

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Wee_falorie_man
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Post Number: 116
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Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 09:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's an article that just came out to-day which pertains to my previous post:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6177321.stm

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 752
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Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 02:56 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I ideally would very much like it if all schools were taught through Irish as I think most of us here would. The problem is the difficulty of getting to that place whare it could be done. A while back Antaine mentioned the idea of starting out a group of students in their first year as being taught through Irish and each year adding another grade so that in 12 or 13 years the whole system would be Irish medium and people becoming teachers would have some time to adjust and so would the education methods of preparing teachers. The only problem with this method is that it would be moving faster than the system could keep up.

The other idea I liked which might work better is to change all schools in said important Gaeltacht counties so that they are taught in Irish. Then we could expand from there over a length of time.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Róman
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Post Number: 601
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Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 05:20 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Wee_falorie_man,

Isn't it ironic that to get their point across the guys from BBC have chosen roadsign with "An Daingean" on it? I hope it was not malicious! As I am mixed now on the point of their attitude to the Irish language.

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Wee_falorie_man
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Post Number: 117
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Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 11:24 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I know exactly what you mean, Róman.
It's hard to believe that the irony was not intentional.

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Gavin
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Username: Gavin

Post Number: 75
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Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 05:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think it matters what they were trying to get across...

I think it could have been an attempt at poetics. I mean I am not sure if "An Daingean" has a special meaning that I don't know about, however, I do know what "daingean" implies and I like where they were going with the idea. As in this could be the "securing, affirming, or solidifying" of the Irish language in the North.

Actually what caught my attention was in the "video clip" to the upper right of the article where the lady say something along the affect that "...that Sinn Féin are using the langauge as a 'cultural weapon' against them (those who are opposed to this)..."

I think that statement should be setting off red flags across the board to people because it is pointing out a very serious problem in my mind. Those who oppose the increase in the use of Irish in Ireland, not just in the North, are seeing it as a personal and cultural attack against them because it alienates them somehow.

And I have to admit, I also like the ideal of the gradual class take over of Irish...first year, then a little later the second year...

I like this idea because it does several very important things. It allows for the all Irish class without the massive numbers required for teachers. Also, starting at the basic levels will help the teachers whose Irish isn't very strong. It will give the upper levels time to refresh. And as time goes on it won't be such a huge conversion on the upper levels because the people will have plenty of time expect and adapt for the changes to happen. Also, if it take this much time, the parents of the all Irish conversion may be more positive to the final take over because they themselves will have been part of it from the start, where most parents today might reject such a conversion because they have that "I didn't have to do it and I don't want my children to..." attitude.

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Antaine
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Post Number: 951
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Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It carries a special connotation in that when the road signs for An Daingean were put up, a contingent of the town's population went ballistic and have been fighting tooth and nail to have their signs remain in english, reflecting very poorly on commitment of people in the gaeltachts toward the language and raising questions about the validity of the status of the Irish language as currently recognized by law.

Of all the Irish signage in the country, that's the one sign you would *least* want to show unless you were making a tongue-in-cheek joke about the impotence of the Gaeilge revival movement.

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 635
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Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 07:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is fíor sin!

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 4410
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 06:34 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

It carries a special connotation in that when the road signs for An Daingean were put up



As I pointed out several times before, that sign actually went up in 1973....

Gavin,

the situation in Northern Ireland/The Six Counties is very different to the situation in Ireland (official name of the state)/Republic of Ireland/26 counties.

Lá today carries a translation of an article by the DUP's spokeman for culture, Nelson McCausland, claiming the Act is an IRA plot to do something terrible to Unionists...

I wasn't able to find the original newsletter article online.

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 637
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 06:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Good old the unionists.. Great bunch of lads altogether..

Is Eire not the proper state name mar gheall ar alt a hocht den Bhunreacht?

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 4411
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 08:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/html%20files/Constitution%20of%20Irel and%20(Irish).htm

Airteagal 4

Éire is ainm don Stát nó, sa Sacs-Bhéarla, Ireland.


http://www.acts.ie/ga.act.1948.0022.1.html

Uimhir 22 de 1948.



ACHT PHOBLACHT NA hÉIREANN, 1948.


2. —Dearbhaítear leis seo gur Poblacht na hÉireann is gnéthuairisc ar an Stát.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 952
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 08:56 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"As I pointed out several times before, that sign actually went up in 1973.... "



My apologies...I misspoke. I should have said, "when recent legislation made An Daingean the only version of the name to be used in subsequent legislation and some government maps"

For more details, I direct Gavin to the loooooong thread detailing the Dingle/Daingean matter on this board.

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Domhnall
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Post Number: 639
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 12:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ní oibríonn do chéad nasc Aonghus.

Díreach é - Eire mar chéad rogha.

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Gavin
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Post Number: 76
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 12:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In truth, I was not aware there was such a problem with this particular sign...

However, the word daingean still has a good feeling to me as to what they might have been going for. It's meaning is not too far of the track for the feeling that if they make the language on official part of the North, then they will have secured a place for Irish in the future.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 4418
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 02:57 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gearr agus greamaigh é!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 4419
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Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 03:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

An chúis go bhfuil seo á lua agam anseo anocht ná gur dóichí ná a mhalairt gur oraibhse, i ngluaiseacht na nGaelscoileanna agus sna scoileanna Gaeltachta, a thitfidh cuid mhór den ualach an chéad ghlúin eile de phobal na Gaeilge a chumasú sa teanga mura leasaítear an córas sna gnáthscoileanna le go mbeidh líofacht bhunúsach ag gach dalta ar fhágáil an chórais oideachais dóibh. Tá an baol ann go dtitfidh ualach míchothrom ar na scoileanna atá ag múineadh trí Ghaeilge – d’fhéadfaí go bhfeicfí gur orthusan thar aon dream eile atá an dualgas an teanga a chur ar aghaidh go dtí an chéad ghlúin eile, agus leis an gcéadchodán beag de pháistí a fhaigheann a gcuid oideachais trí Ghaeilge, ní leor seo mar chóras.

Faraor, tá réamhshampla againn ó réimse amháin den saol a bhfuil eolas áirithe agam air ar an mbealach a ndéantar imeallú ar chúrsaí Gaeilge agus a dtógtar ó lár an aicsin í nuair a fhorbraítear sruth ar leith sainiúil teanga. Tá mé ag smaoineamh ar shaol na craoltóireachta. Le bunú Raidió na Gaeltachta agus TG4 níos deireanaí, is léir anois go bhfuil an chuid is mó agus is lárnaí de chraoltóireacht na Gaeilge ruaigthe ó phríomhbhealaí nó ó lárbhealaí craolacháin na tíre seo. Tá craoltaí trí Ghaeilge ar bhealaí eile RTÉ agus ar na seirbhísí náisiúnta craolacháin eile chomh tearc anois agus gur deacair iad a aimsiú.
B'olc an rud don teanga sa tír seo dá leanfaí an sampla sin agus imeallú na teanga i ngnáthchóras scoile na tíre a fheiceáil mar luach saothair nó fiú mar dhíoltas ar fhorbairtí sa ghaelscolaíocht. Is cinnte gur ceart an ghaelscolaíocht a fhorbairt ar gach bealach gur féidir agus é sin a dhéanamh go straitéiseach, ach níor chóir dualgas iomlán na teanga sa chóras oideachais a bhrú oraibhse, dar liom.



An Coimisinéir Teanga - Séan Ó Cuirreáin , ag caint le comhdháil gaelscoileanna.

http://www.coimisineir.ie/downloads/Notai_Cainte_-_Gaelscoileanna_-_Ollscoile_na _hEireann_Ma_Nuad.doc

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Daithi (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 06:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I agree that Irish should become the language of National schools on an annual basis. So starting with the Junior Infants and then teaching them through Irish until they leave National School. I don't think that children passed the Junior Infants stage should learn through Irish as it's probably too late much as Riona and Gavin have said.

I've contacted the minister for Education and Science but haven't recieved a response yet. I pointed out that it could save the government money in the long term as they could close down a school in a town where there is both a Gaelscoil and a National School and merge them together.

Domhnall - is it Sinn Féin policy to convert National Schools into Gaelscoileanna? If so they are the only political party in Ireland with g

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Daithi (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 07:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sorry, I met to finish my post by saying:

'If so they are the only political party in Ireland with guts'.

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 772
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 07:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think you are misquoting me. I said that they should add one grade a year to being Irish medium. This is not because children can't begin learning in Irish if they've already started with English, it is because it would give the teachers time to get used to the concept.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 652
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 07:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

When it comes to An Ghaeilge in Sinn Féin things get serious.

They have started a 7 year policy aimed at turning the party into a bilingual one, look at what happened in the Basque country...

The policy (don't quote me) basically says it backs Conradh na G's educational reforms, says people need to be trained and trained well before trying to turn schools to gaelscoileanna and the policy is different for the north for obvious reasons. Present teachers may need more training and that must be provided.

Teachers are far too conservative in Ireland to just turn around and say ah ye grand tosóidh mé ag múineadh trí ghaeilge amárach. That doesn't help.

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 120
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 02:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Speaking of Sinn Féin and the Irish language - here's an excerpt from a (very long) article that a friend e-mailed to me yesterday:

The British government has begun a 12-week consultation process on an
Irish language Act for the Six Counties.

As Ian Paisley's DUP immediately railed against the bill, Sinn Fein's
Caitriona Ruane said that the legislation must not be diluted and said
that her party want to see the creation of a Language Commissioner and
sufficient resources to support the full implementation of the
legislation.

Maria Eagle, the British minister announcing the consultation, said
support for a language did not mean imposition of it.

"Legislation to protect a minority indigenous language is not a novel
idea," she said.

"It is well established in other parts of the UK and in the Republic of
Ireland. This paper sets out a number of approaches on which views are
welcome.

Feedback is being sought on four main language-support proposals
including a rights-based approach; prescribed duties on public bodies;
a language scheme approach; or a combination of these.

Sinn Fein has consistently raised the status of Irish in the Six
Counties with the British government and a commitment received on an
Irish Language Act at negotiations in St Andrews in October was seen as
a success.

"Irish language speakers in the north are entitled to the same rights
and entitlements as everyone else," said Ms Ruane.

"Of course, there will be resistance to an Irish Language Act but it is
essential that this consultation process delivers maximum protections
and fundamentally ensures that there are sufficient resources to
promote Irish.

"Beimid ag cinntiu go bhfuil cearta do Ghaeilgeoiri, agus creatlach
dleathach d'fhorbairt na teanga mar a mholtar san Acht seo, beidh muid
ag cinntiu go mbeidh siad ag croi-lar na gcainteanna idir muid fein, an
da rialtas agus na pairtithe eile."

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 659
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 04:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

That just further proves my point.

With FF & FG and their coalition buddies you'll get promises and a symbolic word here and there.

Not a revival. Not what's needed.

If people continue to vote for these parties i can't really see what right they have to be constantly moaning and groaning!

There are alternatives is all i'm saying.. Labhair le do vóta.

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Riona
Member
Username: Riona

Post Number: 776
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 04:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Too bad we can't start our own party and put politics in its place. :)

Its a bit sad that the all of us with no government experience could probably come up with much more effective ways to encourage the growth of Irish than those longtime politicians in power who have had forever to do it and havn't.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 09:25 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Personally, i'm more in favout of there been no governance except a very stream lined one, perhaps 10,000 at most, who just process stuff, but leave you be.

Also, democracies that involve a lot of voting seem to be quite corrupt. FF are always in power, yet spend and act like they might be going out tomorrow.

I would say, on one level, the country never settles down as the leadership is alway in a ferment to stay in power, rather than lead.

The situation elects people like Bertie Ahern who are not natural leaders. Certainly the cabinet houses little leadership material. Strong leadership is confident and makes decisions with no fear



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