Raiteas suimiúl anseo:
http://www.villagemagazine.ie/article.asp?sid=11&sud=59&aid=3104

quote:

STATEMENT: Irish can be an asset to non-nationals
...
I am a non-EU citizen who learnt Irish in adulthood with no background in the language, and incidentally, also one of apparently some 60 or so foreigners who have successfully completed the King's Inns Irish language exam to date. A large number of those in the network of fluent Irish-speaking immigrants, iMeasc, have found Irish to be both an opportunity and an advantage. Fluency in Irish can be a significant tool for immigrants in disempowering xenophobia and bringing new ideas and approaches to contributing to Irish culture.

...
iMeasc is currently working on a project of tri-lingual phrasebooks (Chinese-Gaeilge-English etc) as an introductory taster in Irish for immigrants in Ireland. Whilst iMeasc counts nearly 20 languages amongst its members, from Japanese and Arabic, to Polish, Swahili and Bahasa Indonesia, Immigrant Irish-speakers and Irish-speakers of mixed cultural background are always welcome to join.

Thar cionn go deo :) Sin atá ag teastáil uainn. Roinnt phoiblíocht chosúil leis seo.

I have a problem with the term 'fluent' as implied here. True fluency is when someone is almost indistingushable from a native. A test for this might run as follows:

Take 100 natives from the same (stable dialect) and put them in a number of novel circumstances in which they are to speak. Record and analyse.

In condition 2, get them to put names on novel objects and creatures (made up objects and animals).


*If* there are tracable features in the language that are 'soft' but in anyway analysible (like semantics, idiom) along with grammar and phonology, similarity should show up between the 100 natives.

100 'fluent' non-natives (both irish and non-irish) could also be tested. If they, even if the seem production fluent, diverge from the natives in any identified key areas, one has to question that fluency.


Some might say, that is beside the point of the article, and it is. However, why should anyone believe a self applied label like that. I know people 'fluent' in French. They are not.

Nuair a bheidh mé liofa, rachaidh mé go dtí i Measc, and gheobhaidh mé an freagra!


PS: I've not problem with non-national speaking irish. they probly speak it better than 99% of 'fluent' irish people, its just that a journalist was involved in writing the article, so by definition it is wrong !

no. look again. it is a statement, i. ariel wrote it.

I have met her. She makes her living through Irish. That is fluent enough for me.

bhuel, tá mo theanga féin i mo leiceann, beagán.

Still, people will differ in what they consider fluent as they vary in what they feel the language functions as/for. Getting a concensus would be difficult.

However, i do worry, that with the native language so restricted, there is really no full social realm that it encompasses fully. Every learner now has a chance to modify it, and it perhaps might get hard to say who is wrong or right. Few natives (any?) have formal engineering Irish, so they cannot be the standard there.

Such limitations in the 'geography' of irish are a part of the oddness, I suppose

I would look to modern Hebrew for an answer to that question. They did it. There's no reason we can't.

yeah, but my understanding is that the newborn israeli gov't said, "okay, here's the lanugage the government will operate in and services will be offered in it. learn it. period."

Would that the government of Ireland do the same.

sigh.

It seems to me, however, that the Basques, followed by the Welsh, make more practical examples for Ireland to follow, if for no other reason than Israel pulled population from a disparate linguistic pool, so a compromize language was acceptable to them...ireland is dominated by a single very strong language which all of the gaeilgeoirí speak fluently in addition to gaeilge.

not that there's nothing to be learned from the hebrew example, but the situations are rather like apples and oranges.

Seconded, Antaine.

Far more polictical will is required, because there is no driving reason for re-acquistion.

Glad to hear they are doing something to promote the language!

Was on the 16A into town this morning-the friendly French bus driver started speaking away in Irish to everybody! A real character this guy!

A Dhiarmo, Thats really neat, as in very good and a definite positive thing. The truly sad part of it is that a lot of the Irish people probably didn't understand him.

Beir bua agus beannacht

I think I was on the bus once, but I do recall it was not that complex, just stuff anyone would know -altho been Dublin, who knows. I recall a lowerclass Dubliner telling her child that Ireland anthem was 'Ireland's call', so I guess if loyalty to nation and langauge are in anyway co-varient, there will be lots of them who will think it's French he's speaking!