I seem to remember that the word béarla derives from beal ra, or something similar, which would mean 'to stutter'. I googled a bit, but could not find any reference. Ó Dónaill doesn't say anything...Can anyone point some resource about this point?
Cheers,
Davide

(Message edited by daibhi on November 20, 2006)

I heard it had to do with laws and sense of legalised terminology (jargon)

A chairde,

I think Béal-rá is not "to stutter", but it means more "blah blah blah", meaningless non-sense. That how Gaels perceived Sacs-Béarla the first time they heard it. By the same token Romans (no relation to me ) have called all non-Romans (basically Germans) "barbar" because they couldn't understand what those were saying, it seemed to the Roman ear that they were saying "bar bar bar" all the time.

Is mise 7rl

Ok, I see, so it is like blah, blha. Can you point to some source? I am compiling my PhD thesis, and I stumbled on the etymology of béarla, so I need some quotable source (websites, etc).
Cheers,
Davide

This is from Mc Bain's etymological dictionary -

beurla - English, language, Irish beurla, speech, language, especially English; Old Irish bélre; bél+re, bél, mouth, and the abstract termination -re (as in luibhre, buidhre, etc.).

But it doesn't answer the question I am afraid :))

It doesn't just mean English; it means language in General, or cant. English is properly Sacs Bhéarla.

Aonghuis, do you know any instances when Gaelainn would be called "béarla" as opposed to "teanga(idh)"? I have never heard that word bél-re was used in general sense of "language".

I also found Ó Donaill that béarla is language, but as far as I (think I) know

An bhfuil béarla agat?
is
Have you got any English?

Or am I wrong here?
Cheers,
Davide

Róman,

ní dóigh liom é. Ach tá tagairtí i Dinneen do "Béarla na Saor" agus nithe mar é.

Anois is "sacs-bhéarla" an gnáth chiall a bhaintear as Béarla. Ach níorbh amhlaidh fadó.

Féach anseo (Foras feasa):

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100054/text024.html

Do luidh Féinius as an Scitia
For an sluaghadh;
Fear oireadha eagnuidh eolach,
Bruthmhar buadhach.

Ba haoinbhéarla baoi san domhan
Mar do ghabhsad;
Dá bhéarla déag is trí fichid
Tan ro scarsad.
Scol mhór la Féinius ag foghluim
As gach eargna;
Fear adhamhra eagnuidh eolach
I ngach béarla.

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Is iad an triar-so do scríobh i gcranntáibhlibh aibghitre na dtrí bprímhbhéarladh, mar atá Eabhra Gréigis is Laidean, do réir mar chuireas Ceannfaolaidh na foghluma síos é san Uraicheapt do scríobh sé i n-aimsir Choluim Chille.

---

Acht cheana i gcionn fhichead bliadhan tig Féinius tar a ais don Scitia is cuiris scola 'n-a suidhe innte is do rinne taoiseach do Ghaedheal mac Eathóir ós a gcionn. Is ann sin tug Féinius fá deara ar Ghaedheal an Ghaedhealg do chur i n-eagar is i n-ordughadh do réir mar atá sí 'n-a cúig codchaibh, mar atá Béarla na Féine, Béarla na bhFileadh, Béarla an Eadarscartha, Béarla Teibidhe is Gnáithbhéarla; agus a hainmniughadh go cinnte uaidh féin, da réir sin gonadh ó Ghaedheal mac Eathóir ghairmthear Gaedhealg di agus nach ó Ghaedheal Ghlas, amhail adeirid drong oile; agus fós is tré bháidh ré Gaedheal mac Eathóir tug Niúl mac Féiniusa Farsaidh Gaedheal ar a mhac féin rug Scota inghean Pharao Cincris dó, amhail adeir Ceannfaolaidh na Foghluma san Uraicheapt.

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Na nithe céanna sa Sacsbhéarla
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/T100054/text025.html

Oh, sorry for misreading that, so bearla is also, language. This makes the initial question shadier, and the whole matter more complicated...

This is all very interesting. I've always thought of it as Gaeilge agus Bearla - Irish and English