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Sgm
Member Username: Sgm
Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 09:56 am: |
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A chairde, we talked about the English in the US South in my linguistic class today and the distinctive feature of that dialect. Since the "a" prefixing with the progressive (e.g. She is a-dancin' wonderfully.) is traced back to Scots-Irish immigrants the discussion came up what reasons there were for using this construction. I thought of the Irish equivalent (tá sí ag damhsa...) Is it possible that this construction originates in the Irish use of the verbal noun? I also remembered that in old songs, this construction is also frequently used - is this the connection? Thanks in advance. Mise le meas, Stefan FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
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BRN (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
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I get that feeling with dependant sentances, that they are 'a walking' and 'a talking' too. I have a book from Otto Jerspensen where there is some mention of its use/similar usage in English historically. It might be native to English as well. I can't find the page at the moment, but I think it was something about 'going a-building' and how english changed to make it used less often. When I find the page I will post something about it |
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 327 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 10:49 am: |
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Ó thaobh stair na teanga is ionann iad, ar ndóigh: Tá mé ag rith. I am at running. > I am a'-running > I am running. Uaireanta deirtear go dtáinig an déantús seo chun cinn sa mBéarla agus tionchar láidir imeartha air ag teangacha Ceilteacha atá ina thimpeall. Tá an déantús seo ina shapla an-deas ar fad de "language union" (? níl mé cinnte den téarma cruinn Béarla) ar nós an ceann atá in Balkans agus tionchar láidir tréan déanta ag Albanian, Greek, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Turkish ar a chéile. Tá tréithe gramadaí agus foghraíocht is ionann is gach teanga le tabhairt faoi deara sa réagiún seo. (Message edited by peter on November 17, 2006) 'Rath Dé agus bail Phádraig ar a bhfeicfidh mé ó éireoidh mé ar maidin go gcodlóidh mé san oíche'
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BRN (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
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(p194) "The passive construction ('the house is been built') is an innovation dating from the very end of the eighteenth century. **Before that time the was 'the house is building' , i.e., 'a-building' (is in construction)....**" |
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BRN (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 11:02 am: |
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Sgm
Member Username: Sgm
Post Number: 46 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 03:02 pm: |
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A chairde, thanks for the replies. BRN, so I can assume that it is not necessarily an Irish/Celtic construction... ? My léachtóir also suggested the "at dancing" possibility - I'm looking forward to our next session ... maybe she has found something on it. Mise le meas, Stefan FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
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BRN (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 09:04 am: |
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Well Peter suggests that, if it is a consequence if a sprachbund, we might have no way of knowing how it came about. I might have been an anglo saxon elemement that got into the celtic language, or a celtic one that infected english, or neither (or both!) "Tóg do charr", a (VERB) sé Tá sí a tógáil The first type of sentance to me *feels* like 'a said he', 'a made he' etc |
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 328 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 06:48 am: |
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quote:so I can assume that it is not necessarily an Irish/Celtic construction... ? Dé réir mar a thuigim, níl an déantús ar nós "continuous tense" an Bhéarla le fáil sna teangacha Germanic eile (cé gur léigh mé ar an déantús "Ich bin am Lesen" sa nGearmáinis tráth, ach níl mé siúráilte cé chomh coitianta is atá sé nó an bhfuil sé ann ar chor ar bith anois). Mara bhfuil aon chruthú den déantús seo sna teangacha Germanic taobh amuigh den Bhéarla, tá tú i riocht a rá go bhfuil an bunús de "she is [at] dancing" ins an substratum Ceilteach (nó pre-Cheilteach). Ba bhreá a fháil amach freisin cén uair a tháinig an déantús i gceist isteach sa nGaeilge, sa mBreatnais, etc. Labhraímse féin glan teiriciúil mar níl aon eolas agamsa ar an mBreatnais dubh, bán ná riabhach, agus níl 'am ach buneolas ar stair na Gaeilge :) 'Rath Dé agus bail Phádraig ar a bhfeicfidh mé ó éireoidh mé ar maidin go gcodlóidh mé san oíche'
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1943 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 05:54 pm: |
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quote:Ba bhreá a fháil amach freisin cén uair a tháinig an déantús i gceist isteach sa nGaeilge Bhí sé sa teanga "riamh". Is é sin le rá, bhí sé sa tSean-Ghaeilge freisin, cé nach raibh sé an-choitianta ag an am sin. Caminante no hay camino, se hace camino al andar.
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 4201 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 06:12 am: |
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Mar sin, ar éigin gurbh ón mBéarla a tháinig. |
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