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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (November-December) » Archive through November 16, 2006 » imperfect and conditional differences? « Previous Next »

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brn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 07:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does any dialect make a pronounciation difference between the forms of the 1st conjugation verb in the imperfect and conditional tenses, apart from the 2nd person singular?

I take it one has to watch for context to tell them apart in speech?

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 314
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 07:42 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thóigeainn an teach.

vs.

Thóigfinn an teach.



Scuabadh sé an t-urlár.

vs.

Scuabfadh sé an t-urlár.



Léifí an labhar.

vs.

Léití an leabhar.


Tá lán dífríocht eatrab!

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brn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 08:56 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aye, but in pronounciation, the f is not spoken (according to Dillon and Ó Cróinín in TYI), except maybe a h, so to ones ear, in the first conjugation, there is often little differences for a number of verbs:

thógainn vs thóg(h)ainn
d'ólainn vs d'ól(h)ainn
d'fhéachainn vs d'fhéach(h)ainn

Does one devoice the consonant to show the difference?

According to the Erris book, for monosyllabic stems, there is often just a /h/ difference, caillim:

Imperfect:
[xaL'iN']
[xaL'h@]
[xaL'@d s'e:]
[xaL'@d siN']
[xaL'@d siv']
[xaL'@d si@d']

Conditional:
[xaL'hiN']
[xaL'h@]
[xaL'h@d s'e:]
[xaL'h@d siN']
[xaL'h@d siv']
[xaL'h@d si@d']

Some other paradigms have the forms having fallen together.

Verns with root ending in /x'/ , /j/, or /w/ might be able to use the voice/devoice tendency (that admitedly, seems weak) as 'léighim' (léim today) has /l'e:j@d s'e:/ (Imp) vs /l'e:x'@d s'e:/

However, there is no exmaples of voiced/w/ vs devoiced /w/, as the Erris grammar is not very detailed.


I know it sounds a little anal, but if there is no sound difference, one needs to know them some other way

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 315
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 09:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thóiginn an teach. /to:g'әN'/


Thóigfinn an teach. /to:k'әN'/



Scuabadh sé an t-urlár. /sku:әbәt s'e:/

vs.

Scuabfadh sé an t-urlár. /sku:әpәt s'e:/

Más ceann de /b d g w b' d' g' v'/ é an consan deireanach den fhréimh, bíonn sé seo de-ghlóraithe sa gcoinníollach (mar a bhíonn sé san aimsir fháistineach) i gcónaí. Bíonn /h/ ann déanta den 'f' seo i ndiaidh na gconsainí /L L' l' N N' n' r r'/ de ghnáth. Ní bhíonn aon dífríocht eidir an coinníollach agus an amsir ghnáthchaite i gcás consainí dheireadh na fréimhe de-ghlóraithe ar nós /x x' f f' p p' t' t' s s' k k'/. Chomh fada agus is eol dhom, seo é an bealach den Chaighdeán Oifigiúil, agus go pointe áirid sé sin bealach Chonamara. Bíonn /h/ caillte théis na sonorants i gCois Fhairrge de ghnáth, agus ní bhíonn aon dífríocht déanta eidir, abair, 'chaillfinn' agus 'chaillinn' ins na ceantracha ó thuaidh de Ghealtacht na Gaillimhe (Ros Muc, Carna), mar tá na sonorants cineál aspirated ann i gcónaí agus iadsan eidir na guthaí (caonach /ki:nhәx/). Is cosúil gurb é seo an tslí de na hOileáin chomh maith. Ach deirtear go minic nach bhfuil an /h/ non-etymological seo beo i gcaint na ndaoine óga níos mó.

(Message edited by peter on November 14, 2006)

(Message edited by peter on November 14, 2006)

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brn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 11:13 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ok, so bíonn an difríocht idir glóraithe agus neamh-ghlóraithe, where possible



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