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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (September-October) » Archive through October 26, 2006 » Mutation of Titles « Previous Next »

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1255
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 09:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

There's a company in Ireland called "An Post". When referring to them, would you say:

Oibrím le An Post.

or:

Oibrím leis An bPost. ?

Similarly, would "An Post's offices" be: Oifigí an Phoist?

Where else in Irish do titles get special treatment? I've seen "in" used instead of "i" in places.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 4007
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 10:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Oibrím leis An bPost

(nó

Táim fostaithe ag an Post! - tá difríocht tabhachtach ann....)

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1257
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 11:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

So titles don't get special treatment? Would you also say:

Tá sé ag obair sa Phost.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 106
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 12:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

You are right in your observation that company names (as well other proper nouns) tend to behave like they are exempt from some of the usual rules of mutation etc. I have noticed it too.

I think that most speakers would be hard-pressed to accept "Tá sé ag obair sa Phost" as an okay sentence if the postal company An Post is meant. "in An Post" is probably what would come out of most people's mouths when speaking spontaneously.

Note also that the newspaper Lá is almost never put in the genitive. For example, people say "ar phríomhleathanach Lá". Not "ar phrímhleathanach Lae", that would sound almost ridiculous.

It's just one of those dark corners of Irish grammar where uncertaintly rules.

Is mise,
Michal Boleslav Mechura

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Mac Léinn na Gaeilge (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 12:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Note also that the newspaper Lá is almost never put in the genitive.

Is it possible that the reason Lá would not be put in the genitive is because it's a proper noun and starts with a non-lenitable consonant? That is, are proper nouns like the names of newspapers, the Post Office, etc., handled like other proper nouns, e.g., person's names? I know there's no such thing as a dumb question, but maybe mine above comes pretty close.

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Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 108
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 12:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I don't why it is, I just know that it is ;-)

Is mise,
Michal Boleslav Mechura

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 02:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"starts with a non-lenitable consonant"

is is lenitible if you have the shorter less tense velar l and you care to use it. I think some natives have been known to devoice the velar dental l if needs be



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