mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (September-October) » Archive through October 26, 2006 » "go" exempt from dative case? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1253
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 09:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Are the following correct?

go dtí an pháirc
go dtí an bóthar

If so, it looks like "go dtí an" doesn't work with the dative at all!

I thought that "go" changed to "go dtí an" when you tried to put "an" after it, but I've also seen it used simply like:

Chuaigh sé go dtí Sasanna

What's up with that?

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lars
Member
Username: Lars

Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 11:30 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

If so, it looks like "go dtí an" doesn't work with the dative at all!


Yes, it works with nominative case (an tuiseal ainmneach).
"Go dtí" etymologically isn't a real preposition because "tí" is an old subjunctive of "tar" (= come).
"go dtí X", literary: "until X comes"
X is subject of "tí / come".
quote:

I thought that "go" changed to "go dtí an" when you tried to put "an" after it, but I've also seen it used simply like:

Chuaigh sé go dtí Sasanna

What's up with that


Usually you use "go" without "an ...".
But you use always "go dtí" with "an ...".

Lars

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 104
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 11:53 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

As for the habit to say "go dtí Sasana" instead of just "go Sasana", although it is frowned upon by grammarians, this habit certainly exists, even among fluent native speakers.

My theory is that we are witnessing language change in progress here. The use of "go dtí" is spreading from nouns with the definite article to all definite nouns, with or without an article.

Is mise,
Michal Boleslav Mechura

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 105
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 12:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Oh and by the way, several other prepositions are also "exempt" from the dative case and are used with the nominative instead. Beside "go dtí", they are:

gan, without (gan an t-aisteoir)
seachas, except (seachas an bhean)
idir, between (idir an bhean agus an fear)
murach, "if it wasn't for" (murach an clár plé seo)

There may be a few others that I can't think of right now.

And then there is a whole open set of prepositions which are used with the genitive, most are multi-word items like "le haghaigh" and "i gcoinne" but there is at least one single-word one, "trasna", across (trasna na sráide). But you probably knew that.

Is mise,
Michal Boleslav Mechura



©Daltaí na Gaeilge