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Suaimhneas
Member Username: Suaimhneas
Post Number: 88 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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I was in Ionad an Bhlascaoid in Dun Chaoin on Saturday browsing in the bookshop. The lady who runs the shop was in animated conversation with a local couple, as gaeilge of course. Their chat was wonderfully loud, so it was great opprtunity to soak up an Gaolainn (I've probably misspelled it) Two other browsers, an Irish couple in their late 60s, kept looking with irritation at them. As I was opening the door to leave, I noticed the irritated couple were leaving also, so I held the door. The woman said to her husband, obviously referring to the locals, "It just makes me feel uncomfortable". To which the husband replied: "Ah don't mind them, they're just showing off" They must have been pro-Dingle-name voters bussed in to gerrymander the vote. The next time I'm in Paris I must pull-up the locals for showing off their fancy French! |
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Jonas
Member Username: Jonas
Post Number: 924 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 01:01 pm: |
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Definitely, I do it all the time myself; last time I was in Dublin I was constantly telling people to stop showing off with their English, pointing out how uncomfortable it makes me feel... ;-) Seriously, I have no idea how people like that think. Do they think that everybody is a native speaker of English and that those of us who speak our own languages all gathered a dark and stormy night and made up Irish or French or Russian just to annoy English speakers. I hate to generalise, but I've never heard this attitude from others than native English speakers, but often enough from them. |
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Canuck
Member Username: Canuck
Post Number: 58 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 03:19 pm: |
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Suaimhneas, are you jumping to conclusions? Do you know what they were saying in Irish? Maybe they were talking about skinny dipping. Jonas, I understand what you mean about that attitude, but it is not just limited to native English speakers. We get it all the time from Spanish speakers as well. I'm sure that here in Canada it comes from being in an extremely multi-lingual environment where everyone but most native English speakers has multiple languages - due to the highest immigration rate in the world. |
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Béarloir (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 03:27 pm: |
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But you did generalize Jonas. And often do when it comes to English speakers. |
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Jonas
Member Username: Jonas
Post Number: 926 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 03:58 pm: |
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Mea culpa, I did. Not that I admit I often do it with English speakers, though. The people who got me interested in Celtic languages were English, many of the nicest people I've met are English and in the past I've at times stood up for the English. When it comes to Irish, English is the "killer", to use the word employed by Glanville Price in Languages in Britain and Ireland. That doesn't in any way mean I'm opposed to the English language and its speakers, quite the opposite. To begin with, I would never have learnt Irish if it weren't for the medium of English. Canuck, could I ask which part of Canada you come from? |
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Aindréas
Member Username: Aindréas
Post Number: 172 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 07:02 pm: |
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Sounds like part of the negative stigma still associated with Irish that made the people say that. I know for a lot of Americans, foreign languages are such a completely out-of-the-ordinary thing, that they immediately become paranoid and irritated upon hearing them (esp. in a familar enviroment). I think it's a power thing, when people can't understand the language they can't control the situation, and that makes them grumpy if they're in their own country. That's been my experience anyhow. It's sad. But good for the lady in the shop; I hope she talks even louder next time. Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.
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Suaimhneas
Member Username: Suaimhneas
Post Number: 89 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 07:06 pm: |
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"I hope she talks even louder next time". Níl dabht ar bith faoi sin! |
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(Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 08:09 pm: |
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To Suamihneas I have had similar expeirence with that showing off with Irish which we know is a language spoken by few. I done a two week conversational irish course in the gaeltacht this summer, I would have basic/intermediate Irish not bad certaintly far from great. I came across some speakers from the higher levels with great levels of Irish,some just perfecting their spoken irish. I encountered speakers who would riducle you or give you a look of disdain if you said something not quite correct or failed to understand everything they spoke in Irish. In my opinion they do almost as much damage to the promotion of Irish as a spoken language as folk who actually hate and apose the leARning of irish full stop, we know their is plenty of them. |
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Abigail
Member Username: Abigail
Post Number: 91 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 09:04 pm: |
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A chara anaithnid, Níl an taithí sin agam ar chor ar bith. Níor mhaith liom a rá nach dtarlaíonn sé in áit éigin, ach níor tharla sé domsa riamh. Chuile Ghaeilgeoir lenár bhuail mé ariamh, tá siad an-sásta Gaeilge a labhairt liom. Níl mo chuid Gaeilge ró-láidir -- tá sí maith go leor ach sách mall -- ach fós, níor casadh duine orm nach bhfuil sásta Gaeilge a labhairt liom más maith liom. 'Sé an rud is deacra dar liomsa ná tús a chur leis an nGaeilge agus mé ag caint le duine líofa. Ní móite seisean as labhairt Gaeilge liom - ní fhaigheann sé ach bac ar a chomhrá liom óna laghad atá mo chuid Gaeilge. Tá drogall orm an srian sin a chur ar dhuine eile ar son m'fhoghlamtha féin. (Tá plain old-fashioned eagla orm chomh maith, ach ná habraimís faoi sin...) Ní raibh mé sa nGaeltacht riamh -- b'fhéidir gurb 'in atá taobh thiar den difear. Tá beagnach chuile dhuine a chastar orm ina mhúinteoir, ina cheoltóir nó ina chomhdhalta liom. Seans go bhfuil níos mó fhoighne ag na dreamanna úd ná mar a bheadh ag gnáthdhaoine, an measann tú? (Message edited by abigail on October 17, 2006) (Message edited by abigail on October 17, 2006) Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 68 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 10:48 pm: |
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"I encountered speakers who would riducle you or give you a look of disdain if you said something not quite correct or failed to understand everything they spoke in Irish." So, native Irish-speakers everywhere are to dumb down their language, speak slowly and quietly, or better yet just speak English on the off chance that you might be present and have a traumatic flashback to your unfortunate experiences at the hands of a few pompous, Irisher-Than-Thou prigs? I'm sorry, Unregistered, I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. But if you take to heart the childish behavior of a few stuck-up asses who who probably have nothing going for themselves beyond than their expertise with the Irish language, then the problem is yours. Rise above it, man. For what it's worth, I've experienced precisely what you have. There are jerks everywhere. Luckily they're in the minority, if an intensely annoying one. (Message edited by domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh on October 17, 2006) (Message edited by domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh on October 17, 2006) |
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Suaimhneas
Member Username: Suaimhneas
Post Number: 91 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 03:43 am: |
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The local people I encountered were not showing off at all. They were having an animated conversation in their native language in their native place. They were oblivious to others present. It was the two ignorant visitors who were the problem |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 1241 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 07:46 am: |
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quote:Sounds like part of the negative stigma still associated with Irish that made the people say that. No, I'd say the situation would be the same if they had been speaking any other language (given the same bilingual situation). quote:It was the two ignorant visitors who were the problem. Most people are stupid -- that's my experience of life in anyway. Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.
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Ultán
Member Username: Ultán
Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 01:40 pm: |
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A story somewhat different to Suaimhneas'! On my first visit to An Daingean 3 weeks ago I picked up some veiwcards as Gaeilge in a small store off Main Street. At the counter the elderly Owner ( I assumed ) was speaking as Gaeilge to an elderly lady. Waiting for them to finish I was joined by two older North American ladies. The Owner handed the customer her package and some change. I thought I would get my wee bit of Irish in and said "Dia dhuit, conas tá tú"? He spoke some words very fast - I thought I heard the word agus and fein - and I answered "Go maith". He then proceeded as Gaeilge. I had to stop him and confess I was a bit of a fraud and explained the extent of my Gaeilge. Before the owner could say anything the older customer who was still beside me said "0h you said that very well so keep it up, but you will have to work on that Northern accent". On my way out with the older lady one of the North Americans said to the owner "Was that Gaelic you were speaking"? "Yes, we were speaking Irish". By that time I could have given the lady and the owner a bear hug. They both made my day and then some. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 3951 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 03:58 pm: |
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Tá méascán siopadoirí sa Daingean. Bhí mise i siopa olainn; an chéad turas, rinne mé mo ghnó leo as gaeilge. Duine eile a bhí ann an dara uair agus ní raibh gaeilge aige. |
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 612 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:46 am: |
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I really liked your story Ultan, it made me smile. I was always so excited and pleased when I heard Irish that it was hard for me to imagine anyone not liking to hear it. I think that humans tend to worry about other people talking about them in other languages when they are used to a one-language situation. It is something that monolingual people just have to not worry about, the people probably don't really care about what you're doing. I have to admit that I've thought such things before, though I try my very best not to think that way. I'd rather hear people speaking Irish to each other than hear people speaking English which I understand. Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Canuck
Member Username: Canuck
Post Number: 59 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 08:48 pm: |
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Jonas
Member Username: Jonas
Post Number: 955 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 03:24 am: |
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Those sites are very interesting, thanks a lot! (The reason I asked is that I'll be staying in Canada for six months, but not in Toronto.) |
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Canuck
Member Username: Canuck
Post Number: 60 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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Oh really? Where abouts will you be staying? |
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Rud_ar_bith
Member Username: Rud_ar_bith
Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
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i dont think the situation would have been the same if it were french or any other european language being spoken at all, as they are seen as natively spoken languages. sadly, and however wrong they may be, a huge amount of irish see their language as useless and not native. plenty of people have scorned me for speaking as Gaeilge and when i reply that i prefer to, they either laugh or tell me that to be truthful, they're just jelous they cant. |
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Pádraig_toronto
Member Username: Pádraig_toronto
Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 02:02 pm: |
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Jonas...if you happen to get the opportunity you should visit Toronto, it's not a bad place at all :) Canuck...are you involved in any Irish activities here in the city? There are some groups that meet for irish language things that you may be interested in. |
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(Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 08:22 pm: |
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"plenty of people have scorned me for speaking as Gaeilge and when i reply that i prefer to, they either laugh or tell me that to be truthful, they're just jelous they cant." That makes me sad and gives me inspiration at the same time. On the one hand it's profoundly regrettable that Irish people scorn you for speaking your language, but the fact that some are jealous of your ability leads me to believe that it may be possible to goad them into taking an active interest. You can always calmly tell them that you're prefer not to willingly sell-out even further to the English. Perhaps their sense of shame will prompt them to wonder why they're so willing to. |
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Jonas
Member Username: Jonas
Post Number: 961 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 07:33 am: |
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I'll be in Québec, but I certainly plan to visit Toronto while I'm there. |
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Pádraig_toronto
Member Username: Pádraig_toronto
Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 09:37 am: |
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You will have to let us know when you will be here...if only to direct you to some potential places of interest but also to possibly meet. |
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mahoo (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 11:37 am: |
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Jonas will you revisit your first love? or are you still estranged fron her? |
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 623 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 09:17 pm: |
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A Jonas While you are in Canada will you still write to us, we miss you when you don't write for extended periods. And by the way, Were you at Inis Mor over the summer by chance? I ask because I ran across someone or other's acount of their trip there and they mentioned someone with your name being there. Just curious since I thought it could be yourself. Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Pádraig_toronto
Member Username: Pádraig_toronto
Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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Jonas When do you plan to be in Canada ? Canuck, are you taking Irish at the University ? |
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