in reference to a past thread on, among other phrases, " top of the morning," i came across said phrase recently, used by a gaeilgeoir (cainteoir dúchais), scríbhneoir clúiteach ó Árainn, page 187, yer man Rabbit, seo an rud a dúirt sé, "top o' the morning to ye," he growled...to hynes. 1937. leabhar "Famine"

this was a few years after his trip to hollywood (ní wicklow), so......

I wonder if Mac Leinn has seen this, maybe he's found some other examples of it to add to yours.

Beir bua agus beannacht

A Riona, a chara,

You're darn tootin' I saw this - thanks for asking. But, being the slow type, I'm still trying to grasp the meaning of Déiridh's post above. The farthest I can get in understanding is that a man from the Aran islands visited Hollywood and returned home with the phrase "top of the morning," which coincidently originated in Ireland more than a hundred years prior. I wonder what blockbuster he saw that contained the saying. It's a good thing he didn't go a few years earilier, since I don't think the silent-movie era would have given him the opportunity to return with that "Hollywoodism."

What really impresses me about this saying is that it appears that it completely died out in Ireland, made its way over to Hollywood, then returned to Ireland. Unfortunately, its turbulent journey seems to disqualify it, at least amongst some, as an original Irish saying anymore.

I wish that I or others had some examples to add, especially any that are in Irish, pre- or post-Hollywood, if they do exist.

FRC - GRMA

arsa mac ina ainm-iomarca: "returned home with the phrase"

bhuel, níl a fhios agam cé acu abairt sin bhí aige (liam o'flaherty) roimh ré, sin nó ina-'Ard Mhic Nasca'(haliwode). i was simply sharing another example of the phrase being used...i realize 1937 isn't ancient history, but thawt it would fit into the 'early use' category, not to mention that i found it interesting that a gaeilgeoir would use it.





frc

quote:

bhuel, níl a fhios agam cé acu abairt sin bhí aige (liam o'flaherty) roimh ré, sin nó ina-'Ard Mhic Nasca'(haliwode)

"I don't know which of them said that he had been there (ré?), that or in "Ard Mhic Nasca.(?)"

I'm having trouble seeing where "ré" fits in above since there are numerous definitions for "ré," including moon, stretch of ground, row, smooth, roimh. Also, is "Ard Mhic Nasca" a synonym for Hollywood?"

Go raibh maith agaibh

FRC especially my attempts at pseudonyms!

roimh ré - before

ré [ainmfhocal baininscneach den cheathrú díochlaonadh]
gealach; mí (uair sa ré); tréimhse ama nó saoil (le mo ré); am, aois (an Ré arga, Ré na Críostaíochta).

roimh ré (roimhe sin, roimh an am atá i gceist).

---

stair [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]


Foirmeacha
stair - ainmfhocal
stair [ainmneach uatha]
staire [ginideach uatha]
startha [ainmneach iolra]
startha [ginideach iolra]

---

Mac Léinn na Seanstartha, mar sin.

(Message edited by aonghus on October 22, 2006)

Thanks very much Aonghus for helping me with my pseudonyms and the meaning of "ré." I really appreciate it. I'm learning once again by my mistakes how to form the genitive plural. Fear na mBróg had indicated in another thread that the adjectives have genitive forms also, which I thought I "grasped" at the time. So, coupled with Fear na mBróg's earlier advice, my mistakes, and your kind correction I think I've got it!

Ceist: Do I need to include a definite article if I want to say "Student of Proverbs?" That is, would "Student of Proverbs" be "Mac Léinn Seanstartha?"

Oh.

Proverbs are seanfhocail.

What you have there is Student of Old Histories.

But you only need the definite article...if you are being definite!

i.e. Talking about a certain set of proverbs etc.

seanfhocal [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
seanabairt a léiríonn fírinne nó nós is cóir a leanúint (ar nós mol an óige is tiocfaidh sí).


Foirmeacha
seanfhocal - ainmfhocal seanfhocal [ainmneach uatha]
seanfhocail [ginideach uatha]
seanfhocail [ainmneach iolra]
seanfhocal [ginideach iolra]

---

Mac Léinn Seanfhocal
nó
Mac Léinn na Seanfhocal

---

Alternatives for proverb:
cora cainte
nath

quote:

What you have there is Student of Old Histories.

But you only need the definite article...if you are being definite!

Thanks for the clarification Aonghus. I mistyped when I wrote "proverbs." I should have written "ancient history." But I understand the construction of the genetive plural now.

"cianstair" would be better for ancient history.

---

cian [ainmfhocal baininscneach]
(t céin in abairtí) achar ama, aois (na cianta ó shin).


i gcéin (i bhfad ó bhaile).
ó chianaibh (tamall gearr ó shin).
Foirmeacha
cian - ainmfhocal cian [ainmneach uatha]
céine [ginideach uatha]
cianta [ainmneach iolra]
cianta [ginideach iolra]

céin [tabharthach uatha]
cianaibh [tabharthach iolra]

cian- [réimír]
fada siar sa saol (cian-aimsir, cian-aoiseanna); fada ó bhaile (cianaistear).

quote:

Number of Pseudonyms: 21

Mack an t-ainm a bheas agamsa ort as seo amach!

Mack the novice?

http://www.risa.co.uk/sla/song.php?songid=20265

http://german.about.com/library/blmus_hknef04.htm

(Message edited by aonghus on October 23, 2006)

(Message edited by aonghus on October 23, 2006)

quote:

Mack an t-ainm a bheas agamsa ort as seo amach!

Ní thuigim. Mack is the name that I would have for you from here out?

FRC

beidh X mar ainm agam ort
I will call you X

as seo amach - from this point forward, or from now on.

Sea. Mack: ainm gairid, simplí, seasmhach.

Go raibh maith agat a Aonghuis. I guess "as seo amach" is closely related to the English phrase "from here on out."

A Dennis, I've always liked the name Mack so it's great that you'll be calling me that. I'm still trying to figure out if your decision was based on my number of pseudonyms being 21 or just the mere fact that I've amassed a quantity of them.

A Dennis,

Looks like I was posting (above) while you were responding, so please ignore my question regarding the number 21. Since you were the first to address me as "Mac Léinn" I now have two pseudonyms thanks to you.

An é "Mac Léinn" nó "Mac Léin" a scríobh mé, hmmm?

A Dennis, gabh mo leithscéal, but I don't know the answer to your question, or whether it's really a rhetorical question. Shíl mé go dha "n's" ag Mac Léinn.

FRC - GRMA

Shíl mé go bhfuil dha "n's" ag Mac Léinn.

Tá dhá fhocal ann a bhfuil an fuaimniú céanna acu (i mo chuid Gaeilge):

léann = learning
léan = grief, anguish, woe

Ag magadh a bhí mé.

Expressions of the form "mac X" are fairly productive in Irish, giving us the likes of:

mac léinn
mac tíre
mac beatha
mac báis

So "mac léin" (= son of woe -- och, an créatúr!) is possible.

Again, note my drooly face here !

Go raibh maith agat a Dennis. Tuigim anois.

The genitive in Irish is so fascinating while at the same time very challenging for me to understand. Hence, one of the reasons for me to make up some many pseudonyms; it gives me the much needed practice. But, again I want to thank you for your suggested pseudonyms. I've always had a keen interest in pseudonyms, especially ones like "Mark Twain," which, as I'm sure you know, he coined after his years working on riverboats and hearing the depths of the river called out...mark one, mark two, etc .... mark twain. So, I now have a pseudonym, Mack Lane, which has not one, but two meanings in Irish, "student" and "son of woe."

As I've previously stated, your psudonims are grand with me as long as I know that it is yourself that is writing. :) Only 21, I find that hard to believe but if Dennis counted then I suppose it is that way.



Beir bua agus beannacht

Go raibh maith agat a Riona for the multi-pseudonym support! I'm the one responsible for the tally of 21, which is based on unique pseudonyms that I have used. Although it might be a conservative estimate, I think I might have surpassed Dennis' tolerance for them, hence the simplified pseudonym Mack and it's less-than desirable connatations, e.g. "son of woe."

Oh bhuel, I guess it's a small price to pay considering the practice and help from folks here, including Dennis, on how to form the genitive in Irish. Also, I'm fascinated from my readings of the Celtic tradition of morphing from one form to another, and so pseudonyms give me the chance to do this on my own. I plan on listing my original, and favorite pseudonym, Mac Léinn na Gaeigle, as seo amach whenever I "morph" into something/someone else.

Cén sort rud é "Gaeigle", a Mhic Léinn?

GRMA a Aonghuis,

Conas dearfa "typo" as Gaeilge?

"botún cló", ceapaim.

Although you'll probably find some people saying "clóbhotún". I've yet to accept these english-ordered compound words...

GRMA a Fhear na mBróg.

Tá focal eile againn ar "typo" mar atá "dearmad cló". A "dearmad" is usually an error made through lack of attention, rather than through fundamental ignorance.

A "dearmad" is usually an error made through lack of attention, rather than through fundamental ignorance.

Which begs the question, is it possible to make an error that is due to a lack of attention and simultaneously through fundamental ignorance? Cad faoi botún-dearmad cló?

Go raibh maith agat a Dennis.

Mackie

why not MLG as a namE?

Is breá liom na hainmneacha cleite a chumann tú, Mack. Is mór an spraoi iad! Ach níl mé sásta iad a scríobh amach. Tá siad ró-fhada domsa.

na hainmneacha cleite..... noms de plume as Fraincis, nach ea?

Is mór an spraoi iad!..... Tá siad ró-fhada domsa Oh, tuigim anois! Is capall dath éagsúil é sin!

FRC - GRMA

quote:

noms de plume

Oui.

(capall de dhath éagsúil)

Mercy Buckets....ummm I mean... merci beaucoup Monsieur!

In regard to capall de dhath éagsúil, is the "de" the preposition "de", meaning in this case "of?" And is that why séimhiú of dath is occuring?

Tá Mackie arís sa bhaile mor!

1) Sea.
2) Níl fhios agam. Seans go bhfuil mé mícheart.

Oíche mhaith.

All prepositions cause a séimhiú. . . except for the handful that don't:

ag (nothing)
as (nothing)
os (nothing)
le (nothing)
i (urú)

There's a couple more but I can't rhyme them off...

Anywho, "de" causes a séimhiú.

Go raibh maith agaibh a Aonghuis agus a Fhear na mBróg.

I'm wondering if, when writing or saying "a horse of a different colo(u)r," there needs to be the preposition "de." That is, the construction is not as I initially thought with the use of the genitive, but instead has a preposition "de" which then causes séimhiú.

I know, I know, I've been fixating on genitives, which is all due to my nom de plumes obsession!

BTW, is there an equivalent saying in Irish for "a horse of a different color?" I suspect that my translation attempt of the English phrase is just that - a mere translation and not a true Irish saying.

Ní dhéanfadh an saol capall rása d'asal.

quote:

an equivalent saying in Irish for "a horse of a different color?

Sa chás seo, is féidir é a rá mar seo:

Sin scéal eile.

Sin scéal eile ar fad.

Cuireann sé sin cruth eile ar an scéal.