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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (November-December) » Archive through November 07, 2006 » Most cringe-worthy Americanism? « Previous Next »

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1223
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 06:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd say it would have to be the name "Coleen", or perhaps bastard spellings such as "Shawn".

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 47
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 06:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Works for me. Don't forget the preponderance of girls these days named Caitlin - and pronounced "Kate-Lynn". I wince every time I hear that.

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Lucy (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 07:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My friends Erin, Colleen, Shaun, Noreen all were given these names by their Irish-born and raised parents. Makes you wonder where the ignorance started.

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Shoshana (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 08:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Bill O'Reilly". He's American and very cringe-worthy. As for Irish-Americans, no culture, dominant or fringe, remains unchanged when in contact with others. Seems a bit cruel to poke fun at the results especially when the circumstances of their immigration were so cruel.

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 48
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 09:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

For my part it's not so much about poking fun except in a self-deprecating manner. Primarily this is about bitterly ruing the results of centuries' worth of deliberate squelching of the Irish language. It's bad enough that the language of my ancestry was for all intents and purposes stolen from me. But when even our traditional names are dumbed down to wrong pronunciations or anglicized spellings or both, it's doubly hard to take.

What would you think of a person of Italian descent who wanted to name her sons Gweedoh and Vin-Chenzoe? There's an element of patheticness to it. I mean no disrespect, that's just my honest and unvarnished opinion.

I'm not setting myself above any of that, by the way. On the contrary. I have a sister named Kelly, two cousins named Kathleen and another cousin Erin. Believe me, we're Shanty Irish through and through! :)

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Shoshana (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 10:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Domhnall,
Thanks so much for your great reply. I understand better the tone of this thread. At first I thought that everyone was being very snooty. I'm so glad that we all have a forum to talk about this stuff. Funny how culture is. Both my parents (of Jewish immigrant families) had very "American" names (which actually only Jewish people were using- so ironically they seemed all the more Un-American). They wanted to reclaim their culture and named us all hebrew names. I don't feel an affinity with either group and my son is named Aodhán. Maybe someday he will wonder what I did with his ethnic identity. It's all a conundrum!

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Gavin
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Username: Gavin

Post Number: 15
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 12:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Isn't it funny how people think...

For instance, it is quite common for a parent to want to give their child a sense of identity, so they give them a name that they believe will tie them to a particular culture...

Since this an Irish post, let's say they name their son Shawn because they want to take pride in their Irish roots...

What have they really done here?

First of all "Shawn" is not an Irish name, it is an Irish take on a Hebrew name. Second of all...the Irish name is not "Shawn" it is "Seán." And yes there must be a fada (accent mark) there otherwise the name does not mean "John" it means "old!" Finally...by choosing to spell the name "Shawn" they have failed to do what they originally wanted to do. By not using the traditional name and instead using another culture's perspective, they have distanced the child from the intended culture.

I am speaking from personal experience here...my family wanted us to have traditional Celtic names, and ended up changing the spellings to more "American" forms of the names because no one could even come close to saying them correctly. While it may say "Gabhainn" on my birth certificate...I have to go by Gavin ;0(

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Gavin
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Username: Gavin

Post Number: 16
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 12:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

And for the record...I think the winner of the "Cringe Worthy Americanism Award" has to go to the "Benningan's...Shenanigan's...or any other -nigan's" out there.

They may be the worst example of bad Americanism out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where else can you have a "Shamrock Burgers, Paddy Melts, and Spuds French Style (french fries)?"

And then watch a perfectly normal family sit there and tell you they just love these Irish pubs...

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Cionaodh
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Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 420
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 01:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

While not the most cringeworthy, I should like to draw our attentions to the American penchant for turning placenames into personal names -- such as Kerry, Clare, Derry, Shannon, Tara, etc.

I'd offer up Dún Laoghaire as the next great placename-made-personal-name, but some American would probably phoneticise it "Dun-lay-og-hairy".

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 581
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 01:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

To truth the only one of these that truely gets under my skin to an itchy irritating point is the Caitlin issue. If people like the mispronunciation, fine, just spell it like Katelyn or something you know. I think its a cute name, Katelyn is. But it isn't cute when people pronounce Caitlin as Katelyn.

I can see why people anglicize Irish spellings in America, though I wouldn't do it. A lot of people truely think that those are the real Irish spellings because they don't know better. I did think the idea that Gavin proposed had some definite and previously unknown to me validity, that by messing with a traditional spelling of an "ethnic" name, you're sending the child further from that culture even though you meant to bring them close to it by giving them a name that reflected that.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Suaimhneas
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Username: Suaimhneas

Post Number: 75
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 08:29 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

For cringe-worthiness the Jury's Irish Cabaret must take the biscuit. Those in the cabaret business in Dublin often used to refer to it as the "shite and shillelaghs show"

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1224
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 08:53 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

While it may say "Gabhainn" on my birth certificate...I have to go by Gavin.

Why do you have to go by "Gavin"? Americans call Vladimir Putin, Vladimir, not Val -- why should they call you Gavin?

The two names are probably pronounced identically in some dialects; although in others, the "Gabhainn" will probably rhyme with "abhainn".

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 08:54 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gabhainn --> Gowin

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3863
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 08:55 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

This smacks of the pot calling the kettle black here.

Sure, there are millions of Americans who have a vague and distorted image of Ireland and Irish culture. But I'm sure Americans find some of our imitation of their cultures at least as cringeworthy.

I don't see why "Shawn" is cringeworthy name, but Seán isn't - both are adaptations of an older Hebrew name.

Should every John be called "the Lord is gracious"?

Names have been adapted by cultures for millenia.


But I agree with Suaimhneas; Irish people sending up the Irish to meet what the imagine to be the prejudices of the paying customers is cringeworthy.

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Suaimhneas
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Username: Suaimhneas

Post Number: 77
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 09:33 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's an interesting take on the Irish sending themselves up.

Dion Boucicault's melodrama "The Shaughraun" (1875) was staged to much acclaim by the Abbey Theatre in recent years. It was a merciless send-up and very well received in Dublin (two runs with sell out performances).

It flopped when it transferred to the West End in London however, mainly due to the "politically correct" English theatre critics, who felt that its "Oirish" whimsy demeaned Irish people. It would seem to me that we have matured to the extent that we can laugh at these caricatures, but our brethern on the other side of the Irish sea are still taking umbrage on our behalf.

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Gavin
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Username: Gavin

Post Number: 18
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Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 10:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bearnaigh,

My name is of the Scottish variety "Gabhainn"...

"BH" is always said like a "v".

Gabhainn = Gavin phonetically

However, when a person sees Gavin, they are more familiar with this name and don't hesitate to try and say it. However, you should have seen some of the responses my teachers had when they saw Gabhainn.

My particular favorite was my 1st grade teacher who called me Gab-hane for the first few weeks.

I could have kept its original spelling, but I got tired of correcting every single person I came across.

Believe me when I say having an exotic name is more of a pain than it is worth. So future parents at least think about it before you try and get creative ;0)

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Suaimhneas
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Username: Suaimhneas

Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 11:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have a daughter called Niamh. She never thought of her name as exotic until she went to Australia for 15 months. She got so fed up with the answering the inevitible questions, that she ending up telling Aussies that Niamh was pronounced Sheila

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toofless_granny (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 01:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have to add one very cringeworthy thing I noticed last year. In one of the "Halloween" horror movies, Donald Pleasance keeps talking about "sam-hane". Makes me wince so badly that it's one cheesy horror movie I'll never watch again no matter HOW much I'm in the mood to watch cheesy horror movies!

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 82
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 01:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Sam Hane" was also mentioned on The X-Files

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 50
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 01:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I thought of that instantly when I heard of Gavin's travails with the traditional spelling of his name, above. We have a lot of erstwhile Wiccans here in the US Pacific Northwest and it cracks me up every time I hear one of them refer to their holy day of Sam Hane. People please!

I went to college on the east coast with a girl from New York who was of Irish descent and her name was Siobbhain (forgive me if I've misspelled that), but as you can imagine people routinely called her S'eye-obe-hane.

You may wince now.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 01:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In one of the old Dr Who episodes the good Doctor speaks very learnedly about the ancient feast of Bealtaine - the only problem was he kept calling it Bell-tayne

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 51
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 01:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I've always felt that Sam Hane would be a good moniker for a horror film villain, a la Freddy Krueger or Jason Vorhees.

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Cailindoll
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Username: Cailindoll

Post Number: 165
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 02:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet." --From Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)

What, pray tell, is your name and how is it spelt or smelt, Fear na mBróg? I'm guessing you would be none other than the same charming boy that you now are even if you had been named Shawn.






Colleen
: )

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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 02:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Niamh.

Most people in Ireland mispronounce it wrong anyway, so the Ozzies can be at too much fault

Siobbhain = siobháin (also mispronounced in Ireland...)

"In one of the old Dr Who episodes the good Doctor speaks very learnedly about the ancient feast of Bealtaine - the only problem was he kept calling it Bell-tayne"

Would'nt ya love to clock someone in that situation?

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Bealtaine-Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 02:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

http://www.la-samhna.de/samhain/index.html

"We have samhain running on over 200 servers being managed by beltane. Its working really well so far. Excellent software."

I'd say it's a bone of contention in the office there

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 883
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 05:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

oh, worse than the names is the 99% (it seems) of "neo-pagans" who sprinkle their rituals with "celtic words" for authenticity and wind up celebrating "bell-tayn" and "sam-hayn" and other such holidays

sigh

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 83
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 11:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's a link to an article about the Celtic languages and neo-Druidism that I found very interesting:

http://www.summerlands.com/cgi-bin/mods/showhtml/showhtml.pl?id=celticlanguage

Enjoy!

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 84
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 11:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

uh-oh ...

The link that I posted doesn't take you directly to the article for some reason. Anyhow, it is in the "Articles" section of the Ogmios Project (not the Main Menu); the name of the article is "Native Tongues" by Alexei Kondratiev

(Message edited by wee_falorie_man on October 09, 2006)

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 884
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 11:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

although, i do have to say...welsh has played an interesting minor role in the new dr. who run, and when one episode took place in caerdydd the entire dr who site was in welsh until the next episode.

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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 05:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post


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Fe_arn
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Post Number: 123
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 05:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"In one of the old Dr Who episodes the good Doctor speaks very learnedly about the ancient feast of Bealtaine - the only problem was he kept calling it Bell-tayne"

Is focal i nGaeilge na hAlban é leis, agus seo mar a fhuaimítear é sa teanga sin

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3870
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 06:03 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

An bhfuil 'seo é' béarlachas?



An béarlachas seo é?

Ní hea, go bhfios dom. Tuige?

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 85
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 11:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sin é, a Bheairnaigh!

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1226
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 01:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

However, you should have seen some of the responses my teachers had when they saw Gabhainn.

That's one of the sweet luxuries! I have yet to see someone pronounce my surname properly without my having explicitly told them how to beforehand -- they may consider it a rite of passage ; ).

quote:

What, pray tell, is your name and how is it spelt or smelt, Fear na mBróg? I'm guessing you would be none other than the same charming boy that you now are even if you had been named Shawn.

Such praise is undeserved (considering my history here) hehe, but thank you nonetheless : ) ! You're right, one's name is orthogonal to one's personality -- but still, it's nice to have a nice name.

Well I've give you a clue in anyway, it's one of the Irish names which has a well-established English analogue -- the problem with this, however, is that too many people take the liberty of calling me by its English analogue.

How many people here named "Pádraig" get called "Patrick" by some people? Who's name is "Stiofán" and gets called "Stephen"... ? I've yet to decide whether people are just plain rude when they call me by the English analogue of my name when they know full well that I go by the Irish form. What do others think? Should we correct people if they use the English analogue? Should we be offended?

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 02:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd insist on being called what I want to be called. It's not like either of those names are unpronounceable to an English speaker.

There are limits to what you can expect of others, though. I once worked with a Latin American woman named Sira, and she stridently insisted that everybody pronounce her name with a Spanish r. To me, that was over the top on a number of levels, so I wouldn't do it. When she stomped her foot and insisted, I just told her "no hablo espan~ol", and I made it a point to laboriously pronounce it SEED-uh.

Childish, I know, but it rubbed me the wrong way. :)

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Jonas
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Username: Jonas

Post Number: 908
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well, if it makes you feel a bit better you're not alone :-) Taking about x-files, I still remember one episodes with some Germans. Scully told Mulder that she had done German at university and started speaking to them and at that point my friends and I erupted with laughter. Sure, the words were German but the pronunciation was that of an English-speaking reading up German words as if they were English. Hardly what you'd do after doing it at university.

But at leas the words were German, when they had some Swedes in x-files (what's with all the languages they butchered?) they thought it sufficient to replace my cute little native language with comlete gibberish that sounded like eek-beek-deek-seek.

(ò, agus táim that n-ais aríst, conas atá sibh go léir? Tá súil agam go raibh samhradh ana-dheas agaibh)

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1227
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

I'd insist on being called what I want to be called. It's not like either of those names are unpronounceable to an English speaker.

There seems to be some sort of weird perversion going on in the minds of Irish people though. If an Irish person were to be introduced to someone named "Vladimir", they'd just accept that that's the person's name. However, when they hear a name which sounds remotely like an English one, they get the idea into their head that there's some sort of "one for one" name conversion when speaking different languages, and that every name has an analogue. Even though a person's name is Stiofán, they somehow think that they should call them "Stephen" when speaking the English language when speaking English... ? Or whether it just feels plain weird to them to use an Irish name like "Pádraig" when speaking English?

Any thoughts on this?

I've been trying to decide whether people are just being inconsiderate when they're using the English analogue of my name, or whether they genuinely think it's more pertinent to use the English analogue?

I haven't decided what might reaction should be?

(1) Hey asshole, you know my name -- call me by that other name again and I'll start calling you Hitler from now on.
(2) Excuse me, would you please call me "Pádraig" -- my name is not "Patrick".
(3) Just let it slide.

I'm half torn between 2 and 3.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 52
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:34 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd go for #2. Your name is yours and it's entirely reasonable for you to expect to be called what you want to be called.

My mother has a strange problem similar to this and for the life of me I cannot decide whether it's annoying or hilarious. A woman in our parish who our family has known for decades has taken to calling my mother "Nancy." Problem is, my mom's name is Ann. My mother has never gone by the name of Nancy, and can think of no reason why this woman insists on calling her that. In the past thirty years she never used to call my mother Nancy, but these past few years she simply will call her nothing but that, no matter how many times she's "reminded" of my mother's real name.

Apparently Nancy is or was a common nickname for Ann, so we can only conclude that this lady thinks that's justification enough. Or she's gone round the bend.

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Jonas
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Post Number: 911
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Those are the two options, I'd agree. I would go for #2 while talking to Irish people, Pádraig is a name that an Irishman should know. My name is usually (99.9%) pronounced wrong by people who aren't from the Nordic countries but I usually don't mind as long as it's at least close. When an elderly Irish lady out in Tír an Fhia started to confuse Jonas with Judas, I thought it fit to correct her.

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Cionaodh
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Post Number: 422
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 04:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Do scríobh Jonas:
ò, agus táim thar n-ais aríst

Fáilte thar n-ais, a Jonas! Tá súil agam go dtabharfair do chuid taidhleoireachta in aice leatsa -- beidh sé de dhíth orainn ar ball.

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3878
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 04:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Fearaimse fáilte romhat freisin, a Jonas.

Agus dá mhéid againn a mbíonn scileanna taidhleoireachta in éineacht linn anseo is amhlaidh is fearr!

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Lucy (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 07:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Dhomnall - Perhaps your mother's friend is just "losing it" in the first stages of Alzheimers or dementia.

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 55
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 09:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm sure it's a possibility, but to be very frank the poor dear has always been a bit of an odd duck so we just chalk it up to her native eccentricities.

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Riona
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Post Number: 591
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 10:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Fear_nambrog a chara, tell me how to lenite your name, le do thoil

I think number 2 is probably the best choice with Irish people, though I understand that number 1 might be tempting sometimes. With foreigners though you might want to be a little more lenient, maybe help them figure out how to pronounce it if they say they can't etc.

History or none, I very much think you're a kind person and I would miss you if you went away from us.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1231
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 09:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Tell me how to lenite your name

The same way to lenite any word -- stick a h after the initial consonant. There are a few exceptions, such as:

vowels
sc
sp
h
j,k,q,v,w,x,y,z
l
n
r

The vocative case of my psuedonym is:

A Fhear na mBróg

, although I've seen native/fluent speakers address me as:

A Fhir na mBróg

, so maybe both forms are acceptable.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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Maidhc_Ó_g
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Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 271
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 10:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

God knows how many times I've done it wrong myself - tá bron orm, a Fhir.

A quick looking through Learning Irish gives the second as the one used - at least in that area.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3901
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 10:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

http://www.ucc.ie/acad/mi/cursai/gramadachnua/grnua2.html
(ag bun an leathanaigh)

Tuiseal Gairmeach
Fir
a fhir mhaith




Ach bhí cúis maith agat le "A Fhear na mBróg", nach raibh?

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1233
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 04:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bhain mé é as aithris a dhéanamh ar an modh ina ndéantar an tuiseal ginideach (an ghinideach fhionraithe agus araile), i.e.:

cóta an fhir mhaith
cóta Fhear na mBróg

Níl fhios agam an n-úsáidtear an fionrú seo sa ghairmeach fosta.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 594
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 08:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

That is precisely why I was asking because I'd seen both of those used for your name. I think I'll use Fhir because it sounds like that is the more agreed upon course in the matter.

GRMA

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 85
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 09:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

According to section 8.20 of the Christian Brothers, "a Fhear na mBróg" is correct.

An Gairmeach Uatha
8.20 Is iondúil gurb ionann foirceann an ghairmigh uatha agus foirceann an ghinidigh uatha sa chéad díochlaonadh: teach Sheáin; a Sheáin.
Ní gnách, áfach, infhilleadh sa ghairmeach uatha
  • ar chnuasainm: a phobal
  • má tá brí mheafarach nó brí ceana i gceist: a cheann cipín; a rún; a stór
  • má tá ginideach cinnte faoi réir aige: a mhac Iósaif; a scáthán an chirt. Ach a Mhic Dé.

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3909
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, October 13, 2006 - 04:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

GRMA, Abigail.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1234
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, October 13, 2006 - 04:54 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá áthas orm go n-aontaíonn an tuiseal ginideach agus an tuiseal gairmeach maidir leis an "bhfionrú" seo.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3914
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, October 13, 2006 - 06:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Fhear na mBróg a ghairfidh mé ort as seo amach - go dtí go ním dearmad!

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Fearn
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Username: Fearn

Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 09:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Gee, these guys sure know their code"

Focal a dúirt píolóta Meiriceánach i ndiaidh dó a eitleán a thuairteáil in Éirinn sa Dara Cogadh Domhanda. Thuairt an-chuid eitleán Meiriceánacha in Éirinn cé go raibh Éire neodrach. De ghnáth, cuireadh ceistiú ar na píolótaí ag an arm, agus tamall ina dhiadh sin, tugadh go Tuaisceart Éireann iad agus cuireadh ar láimh na Meiriceánach ansin iad.
Sa chás seo, is saighdiúirí de chuid an Chéad Chathlán a cheistigh é, i mbéarla, dar ndóigh, cé go labharfadh siad le céile i nGaeilge.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3949
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 10:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Scéal deas, a Fhirn. An bhfuil foinse agat dó?

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Fearn
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Username: Fearn

Post Number: 22
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 10:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Monuar, níl. Ní chuimhin liom an raibh sé sa leabhar sin ag Dónaill Mac Amhlaigh: Saol Saighdiúra. Ach seans náirbh ea. Chuir mé an-spéis i gcúrsaí airm agus mé ag fás aníos, ach ní chuimhin liom an foinse.

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1786
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 11:18 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá a fhios agaibh, is dócha, go raibh Codes Talkers ag na Marines Meiriceánacha le linn an Dara Cogadh Domhanda a labhair le chéile i dteangacha Meiriceánacha, cuid acu i Navajo, cuid acu i gComanche. Dála an scéil, is teanga rí-dheacair í Navajo, ach is teanga réasúnta éasca í Comanche (an bhfuil séimhiú agus urú inti, creid é nó ná creid!).

Caminante no hay camino, se hace camino al andar.

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Fearn
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Username: Fearn

Post Number: 26
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 11:22 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Geronimo!

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1787
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 11:30 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Apache ab ea Gerónimo. Tá difríocht an-mhór idir Apache agus Comanche. Saghas Shoshoni is ea Comanche. Tá na canúintí Apache an-chosúil le Navajo.

Caminante no hay camino, se hace camino al andar.

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Fearn
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Username: Fearn

Post Number: 30
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 11:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cad é an Apache ar "ghreann"?

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1788
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 11:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Níl aon Apache agam, faraor. Ach is ionann "nisummaappeh" agus "greannmhar" i Shoshoni. Bheadh an focal Comanche an-chosúil leis sin.

Caminante no hay camino, se hace camino al andar.

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Fearn
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Username: Fearn

Post Number: 32
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 05:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bhfuil an há há acu? ;)

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1791
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá cúpla ceann acu:

ha = [ceist]
haa' = sea

Mar shampla:

E ha taipo taikwante?
Haa'.

An bhfuil Béarla agat?
Tá.

Caminante no hay camino, se hace camino al andar.

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Fearn
Member
Username: Fearn

Post Number: 49
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 06:15 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cosúil le Seapáinis:
Irurandojin deska? Ka=[ceist]
Hai. Is ea.


An Éireannach thú?
Is mé.

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Caiterz (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From:
Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 11:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi.. i had a question..

Someone up there... said they wince when they hear Caitlin pronounced "Kate-Lynne"

or whatever..

I was curious...

how ARE you supposed to pronounce it??

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Suaimhneas
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Username: Suaimhneas

Post Number: 94
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 09:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It can vary slightly from area to area but Kawtch-leen is an approximation of the pronunciation

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toofless granny (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 10:20 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Just had to mention that I saw a special about the history of Halloween last night on the History Channel, and every single person pronounced "Samhain" correctly. I was AMAZED.

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 81
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 02:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think it's commonly Anglicized (at least here in the states) as "Kathleen", no?

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mahoo (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 04:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

kot-linn

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Suaimhneas
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Username: Suaimhneas

Post Number: 104
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 09:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yes. it is anglicized as Kathleen in Ireland also

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 4057
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 05:16 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm beginning to wonder, having seen an Irish child called Katelyn, whether it isn't in fact a portmanteau name; i.e. a combination of Kate and Lyn, rather than an alternative for Kathleen?

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Suaimhneas
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Username: Suaimhneas

Post Number: 107
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 07:16 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Aonghuis

Here's my theory: A non-Irish couple see Caitlin in a name book, they pronounce it Kate-lynn and name their child (I know one couple who did so). Somebody else hears the child's name, and thinks "that's nice", but not having seen the name written down use the name Katelynn for their own child. Neat or what?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 4058
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 08:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cá bhfios.

Tá an leagan fairsing go leor, fch:
http://babyparenting.about.com/cs/gettingready/a/katelyn.htm

quote:

In 2005, the name Katelyn was ranked #58



Ach is ainm Gréagaíse ó cheart atá ann pé scéal é.

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 09:42 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"In 2005, the name Katelyn was ranked #58
Origin: Irish

Meaning: Pure"

http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=katherine

"The Romans associated it with Greek καθαρος (katharos) "pure" and changed their spelling from Katerina to Katharina to reflect this"

I dont know how since the semantics were hammered about centuries before the name came to ireland that it could meant that to native irish speakers after the norman invasion unless they knw their greek

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 4059
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 10:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Which they may well have done, or at least known the saint whose name they were choosing. It depends also on when the name became common in Ireland.

But the question is, is Cáit or Caitlín a cringeworthy gaelicism? If not, why is Katelyn cringeworthy?

On a footnote, the German word for Heretic, Ketzer, derives from καθαρος (katharos) "pure" - which the Albigensians used to refer to themselves.

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Cait_rua
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Username: Cait_rua

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 10:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Re: Caitlin--guilty as charged; when I named my youngest 15 years ago, I used the older spelling but the American pronunciation, so she's "Kate-lynn" There are at least 15 different spellings used for this name--I have collected them over the years.

When I use the name myself (in Irish classes, etc, since I'm Cathy) I spell it with the fadas and pronounce it Kawtch-leen. (And my user name is missing the fada because I had trouble with my computer when I registered!)



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