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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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Why not list your techniques for learning here? Here's one. Recipe ~ Ingredients: Copy of Garry Banister's Seanfhocail i nGaeilge/ Proverbs in Irish One pocket dictionary, like the An Gúm one Directions: Got to back of book (where proverbs are listed in irish). Pick one. Take 60 seconds to memorise the whole proverb That done, go the the foclóir póca and look up any words one does not know. Do not write down anything, but look at the original anytime one needs it When one thinks one has the meaning of the proverb, check its English translation Purpose: trains aural memory, temporary memory, and reading skills Possible problems: if one can't pronounce irish or does'nt know irish spelling looking up words from memory might be hard |
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 556 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 02:22 am: |
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That sounds like a good method. You remind me a bit of someone I once knew. Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 05:19 pm: |
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The technique is a development of 'Kim's Game', a tool developed (supposedly) for espionage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim's_Game I found mention of it on some site once, and used it myself The idea of the post was to get other people to tell of their techniques, both that did not happen! |
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 31 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 09:15 pm: |
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Here's my technique. 1. Comprehensive grammar book (pick your one of preference) 2. Comprehensive vocabulary list ("1000 French Words") 3. Idioms list ("1001 French Idioms") 4. Audio of contemporary radio/tv programming Absolutely no organic, touchy-feely approaches (like "total physical response" crapola); if there's not a clearly visible logical structure to it, I won't benefit from it. I need either clearly structured rules and regulations, or blind memorization. The best teacher I ever had was my college German professor. He was a drill seargent (literally) for grammatical exercises, and he coupled this with a requirement for blind memorization of mini dialogues between two people in the target language, with no thought given to explaining why the phrases they were speaking meant what they did. It's the most effective classroom technique I ever experienced because the brute-force memorization of strategically important phrases and idioms took place in the blind memorization part... than many moons down the road when you finally were taught the grammatical rules appropriate to that interchange, you'd have a real "A-HA!" moment in which you understood with crystal clarity what it meant - and at that point, it was with you forever. With Irish, the most absolutely frustrating aspect of my learning experience is that I desperately need a pronunciation guide to get me through almost every d@mn word. In my years of studying languages, this is the first time I feel illiterate when trying to sound out words. It's like being back in first grade. Do they have a "Hooked on Phonics" for Gaelige? Presently I'm listeniing to the "Pimsleur Quick & Simple Irish" CD's that I just received in the mail. This is my first exposure to the Pimsleur method, so I'll let you know after a few go-rounds how it's panning out. |
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Aindréas
Member Username: Aindréas
Post Number: 153 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:03 am: |
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Please do let us know how the Pimsleur goes, Domhnall. Your frustrations with pronunciations seem to echo mine. As for learning methodologies, I need a good teacher, a good class, a passion for the language, and a lot of free time. These are usually very hard to come by. :-) I've had great experiences with an intensive German course during the summer, where I could concentrate on nothing but the language for 6 weeks. It was wonderfully fast paced; we memorized hundreds of vocabs words a week, and there was no "oh we're not concentrating on grammar, because that always bogs down language learning" crap. While my teachers did integrate grammar quite well, they emphasized expressive communication over perfect use (if you spend 5 minutes deciding whether to say "die Tisch," "das Tisch," or "der Tisch ist grün," that's bad!). It was a great class, but unfortunately there's no time for things like this during the academic year. :-( And my school offers no language in its last two years, so I'm forced to go to university dual enrollment programs. Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.
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Cionaodh
Member Username: Cionaodh
Post Number: 400 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 07:53 am: |
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A Dhomhaill, I don't know if it'll help or hinder, but here's a transcript for the Pimsleur course: http://www.gaeilge.org/pimsleurtranscript.html http://www.gaeilge.org FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 32 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 11:42 am: |
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Hah, what an unexpected bonus! Thank you! It will help, actually. I know the focus of the course is on strict audio, but my mind was immediately concerned with how the words I was learning would be written out. Many thanks! |
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Fearfeasog
Member Username: Fearfeasog
Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 05:07 pm: |
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ingredients-- a book for adult learners, shortstory, simple to middle hard Irish (available on litriocht.com) pens--a red and a black a notebook pocket gem dictionary, or whatever one's around time instructions-- sit down and begin to read book. read from beginning to end, all at once or in installments. when finished, open notebook to page 1. draw a line vertically don the right side of the page about 1 1/2 inches from the edge. (this is for footnotes) begin transcribing a translation of the book, not word for word, but using common English (or your native language of choice) idoms to replace the Irish ones. when an unfamiliar word comes up, look it up, transcribe its meaning in the body of your translation, and footnote it in red (i underline it and begin numbering them as i move down the page, starting over at "1" when i get to page 2 of the notebook.) write the corresponding number in the margin on the right, and write the word or phrase in Irish there. later, make flashcards of any of the words/phrases that didn't quite stick and study them at lunchtime, on the toilet, whenever you have a second to spare. periodicaly re-read the book without the notes to see how much you have absorbed. if you have a recording of said book, listen to it wiothout the book as often as you can stand. i haven't tried this yet, but it might be a goo excercise to try to RE-translate the book back into irish when you have your transcription done. or sections of it. this method has beed AMAZING for me. |
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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 08:28 am: |
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Another modification of the above is to look at the head word, such as 'ceanndána' and learn what that is before learning the phrase temporarily into memory. This means that one might eb able to work out what the phrase means ahead of time. Also, concentrating on similar phrases like 'as X as Y' ('chomh X le Y') alone then ' is fearr...' etc has utility |
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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 08:30 am: |
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"Another modification of the above is to look at the head word, such as 'ceanndána' and learn what that is before learning the phrase temporarily into memory. This means that one might eb able to work out what the phrase means ahead of time." Coupled with the use of a general framework like 'chomh X le Y', 'chomh ceanndána le muc', I meant to say |
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 36 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 04:31 pm: |
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So, I'm working my way through this Pimsleur CD and I can definitely see the value you of it, for a beginner. There's nothing like hammering some basics into your head with pure brute force. If the first unit is any indicator, I think it will definitely be a bit of a chore getting through some of them (as the BELABOR these phrases absolutely to death), but each unit is only a half hour and the belaboring does serve a purpose. I'm surprised there are only 8 units to this program. |
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Wee_falorie_man
Member Username: Wee_falorie_man
Post Number: 77 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 05:46 pm: |
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I know what ya mean Domhnall. I began learning Irish Gaelic about four and half months ago and started with the Pimsleur course. It took me about two weeks to finish after which I studied a couple of months with Gaeltalk and have now moved on to "Teach Yourself Irish" (the older Munster version). I have learnt alot so far, and forgotten alot, but I have never forgotten ANYTHING from that Pimsleur course. They did a great job of permanently drumming those sentences into my brain; it's too bad Pimsleur doesn't have any further courses in Irish - if they did, I would probably be fluent by now :) |
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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 06:50 am: |
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Fearfeasog, I'm going to try that, but also get a second book, so that I can test my reading efficy unprompted Another method a friend and myself are going to try is to get a play or dialogue with two actors and memorise the lines and act them out, so that we can emulate fluent speech (even if it is of course planned) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 3823 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 08:59 am: |
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B'fhiú duit an leabhar seo a fháil; agus na físeáin ma tá tú saibhir... http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=204 6 quote:Agallamh Bheirte, Lúibíní, Ceapóga, Amhráin Saothair Sa leabhar seo, an chéad saothar cuimsitheach ar an ábhair, tá cíoradh agus plé ar na saintréithe a bhaineann leis an ealaín dhúchasach seo mar aon le cnuasach breá de na cineálacha éagsúla ó cheantair éagsúla http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=204 7 |
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 39 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 11:55 pm: |
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Regarding the Pimsleur course... If I hear "An dtuigeann tú Gaelainn?" again on the way to or from work, I may just drive my car into the ditch. Or over a bridge. Or into a brick wall at 90 m.p.h... Levity aside, it does seem to be working! It's brutally mind-numbing, but my responses are becoming knee-jerk automatic. My assessment of the course: exquisitely frustrating, but effective! You take the good with the bad, as in all things in life, apparantly. (Message edited by domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh on October 05, 2006) |
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Nicole
Member Username: Nicole
Post Number: 60 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 09:38 am: |
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Cionaodh and I were discussing this the other night. It would be even more effective if there were 60+ lessons, as I find that only having 8 tends to grate on the nerves. I understand your concerns about how sometimes it's unclear to pronounce something -- I find the man's voice to be annoying at times -- I'm not sure if it's him or how his voice was edited, but half the time he sounds as if he's being goosed... Nicole Apostola http://cuisle.blogspot.com
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