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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (September-October) » Archive through October 06, 2006 » Learning methodologies « Previous Next »

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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 11:54 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Why not list your techniques for learning here? Here's one.


Recipe ~ Ingredients:
Copy of Garry Banister's Seanfhocail i nGaeilge/ Proverbs in Irish

One pocket dictionary, like the An Gúm one



Directions:
Got to back of book (where proverbs are listed in irish). Pick one. Take 60 seconds to memorise the whole proverb

That done, go the the foclóir póca and look up any words one does not know.

Do not write down anything, but look at the original anytime one needs it

When one thinks one has the meaning of the proverb, check its English translation



Purpose: trains aural memory, temporary memory, and reading skills



Possible problems: if one can't pronounce irish or does'nt know irish spelling looking up words from memory might be hard

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 556
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 02:22 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

That sounds like a good method.

You remind me a bit of someone I once knew.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 05:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The technique is a development of 'Kim's Game', a tool developed (supposedly) for espionage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim's_Game

I found mention of it on some site once, and used it myself


The idea of the post was to get other people to tell of their techniques, both that did not happen!

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 31
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 09:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's my technique.

1. Comprehensive grammar book (pick your one of preference)
2. Comprehensive vocabulary list ("1000 French Words")
3. Idioms list ("1001 French Idioms")
4. Audio of contemporary radio/tv programming

Absolutely no organic, touchy-feely approaches (like "total physical response" crapola); if there's not a clearly visible logical structure to it, I won't benefit from it. I need either clearly structured rules and regulations, or blind memorization.

The best teacher I ever had was my college German professor. He was a drill seargent (literally) for grammatical exercises, and he coupled this with a requirement for blind memorization of mini dialogues between two people in the target language, with no thought given to explaining why the phrases they were speaking meant what they did. It's the most effective classroom technique I ever experienced because the brute-force memorization of strategically important phrases and idioms took place in the blind memorization part... than many moons down the road when you finally were taught the grammatical rules appropriate to that interchange, you'd have a real "A-HA!" moment in which you understood with crystal clarity what it meant - and at that point, it was with you forever.

With Irish, the most absolutely frustrating aspect of my learning experience is that I desperately need a pronunciation guide to get me through almost every d@mn word. In my years of studying languages, this is the first time I feel illiterate when trying to sound out words. It's like being back in first grade.

Do they have a "Hooked on Phonics" for Gaelige?

Presently I'm listeniing to the "Pimsleur Quick & Simple Irish" CD's that I just received in the mail. This is my first exposure to the Pimsleur method, so I'll let you know after a few go-rounds how it's panning out.

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Aindréas
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Username: Aindréas

Post Number: 153
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:03 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Please do let us know how the Pimsleur goes, Domhnall. Your frustrations with pronunciations seem to echo mine.

As for learning methodologies, I need a good teacher, a good class, a passion for the language, and a lot of free time. These are usually very hard to come by. :-)

I've had great experiences with an intensive German course during the summer, where I could concentrate on nothing but the language for 6 weeks. It was wonderfully fast paced; we memorized hundreds of vocabs words a week, and there was no "oh we're not concentrating on grammar, because that always bogs down language learning" crap. While my teachers did integrate grammar quite well, they emphasized expressive communication over perfect use (if you spend 5 minutes deciding whether to say "die Tisch," "das Tisch," or "der Tisch ist grün," that's bad!). It was a great class, but unfortunately there's no time for things like this during the academic year. :-( And my school offers no language in its last two years, so I'm forced to go to university dual enrollment programs.

Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.

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Cionaodh
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Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 400
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 07:53 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Dhomhaill,

I don't know if it'll help or hinder, but here's a transcript for the Pimsleur course:
http://www.gaeilge.org/pimsleurtranscript.html

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 32
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 11:42 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hah, what an unexpected bonus! Thank you!

It will help, actually. I know the focus of the course is on strict audio, but my mind was immediately concerned with how the words I was learning would be written out.

Many thanks!

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Fearfeasog
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Username: Fearfeasog

Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 05:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ingredients--

a book for adult learners, shortstory, simple to middle hard Irish (available on litriocht.com)
pens--a red and a black
a notebook
pocket gem dictionary, or whatever one's around
time

instructions--

sit down and begin to read book. read from beginning to end, all at once or in installments.

when finished, open notebook to page 1. draw a line vertically don the right side of the page about 1 1/2 inches from the edge. (this is for footnotes)

begin transcribing a translation of the book, not word for word, but using common English (or your native language of choice) idoms to replace the Irish ones. when an unfamiliar word comes up, look it up, transcribe its meaning in the body of your translation, and footnote it in red (i underline it and begin numbering them as i move down the page, starting over at "1" when i get to page 2 of the notebook.) write the corresponding number in the margin on the right, and write the word or phrase in Irish there.

later, make flashcards of any of the words/phrases that didn't quite stick and study them at lunchtime, on the toilet, whenever you have a second to spare.

periodicaly re-read the book without the notes to see how much you have absorbed.

if you have a recording of said book, listen to it wiothout the book as often as you can stand.

i haven't tried this yet, but it might be a goo excercise to try to RE-translate the book back into irish when you have your transcription done. or sections of it.

this method has beed AMAZING for me.

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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 08:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Another modification of the above is to look at the head word, such as 'ceanndána' and learn what that is before learning the phrase temporarily into memory. This means that one might eb able to work out what the phrase means ahead of time.

Also, concentrating on similar phrases like 'as X as Y' ('chomh X le Y') alone then ' is fearr...' etc has utility

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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 08:30 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Another modification of the above is to look at the head word, such as 'ceanndána' and learn what that is before learning the phrase temporarily into memory. This means that one might eb able to work out what the phrase means ahead of time."

Coupled with the use of a general framework like 'chomh X le Y', 'chomh ceanndána le muc', I meant to say

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 36
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 04:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

So, I'm working my way through this Pimsleur CD and I can definitely see the value you of it, for a beginner. There's nothing like hammering some basics into your head with pure brute force.

If the first unit is any indicator, I think it will definitely be a bit of a chore getting through some of them (as the BELABOR these phrases absolutely to death), but each unit is only a half hour and the belaboring does serve a purpose.

I'm surprised there are only 8 units to this program.

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 77
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 05:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I know what ya mean Domhnall. I began learning Irish Gaelic about four and half months ago and started with the Pimsleur course. It took me about two weeks to finish after which I studied a couple of months with Gaeltalk and have now moved on to "Teach Yourself Irish" (the older Munster version).

I have learnt alot so far, and forgotten alot, but I have never forgotten ANYTHING from that Pimsleur course. They did a great job of permanently drumming those sentences into my brain; it's too bad Pimsleur doesn't have any further courses in Irish - if they did, I would probably be fluent by now :)

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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 06:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Fearfeasog,
I'm going to try that, but also get a second book, so that I can test my reading efficy unprompted

Another method a friend and myself are going to try is to get a play or dialogue with two actors and memorise the lines and act them out, so that we can emulate fluent speech (even if it is of course planned)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3823
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 08:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

B'fhiú duit an leabhar seo a fháil; agus na físeáin ma tá tú saibhir...

http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=204 6

quote:

Agallamh Bheirte, Lúibíní, Ceapóga, Amhráin Saothair

Sa leabhar seo, an chéad saothar cuimsitheach ar an ábhair, tá cíoradh agus plé ar na saintréithe a bhaineann leis an ealaín dhúchasach seo mar aon le cnuasach breá de na cineálacha éagsúla ó cheantair éagsúla



http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=204 7

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 39
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 11:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Regarding the Pimsleur course... If I hear "An dtuigeann tú Gaelainn?" again on the way to or from work, I may just drive my car into the ditch. Or over a bridge. Or into a brick wall at 90 m.p.h...

Levity aside, it does seem to be working! It's brutally mind-numbing, but my responses are becoming knee-jerk automatic.

My assessment of the course: exquisitely frustrating, but effective! You take the good with the bad, as in all things in life, apparantly.

(Message edited by domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh on October 05, 2006)

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Nicole
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Username: Nicole

Post Number: 60
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 09:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cionaodh and I were discussing this the other night. It would be even more effective if there were 60+ lessons, as I find that only having 8 tends to grate on the nerves. I understand your concerns about how sometimes it's unclear to pronounce something -- I find the man's voice to be annoying at times -- I'm not sure if it's him or how his voice was edited, but half the time he sounds as if he's being goosed...

Nicole Apostola
http://cuisle.blogspot.com



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