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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (September-October) » Archive through October 06, 2006 » For Riona: Nuala on the Teaching of Irish « Previous Next »

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William
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Username: William

Post Number: 36
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 06:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The title of the article is:

Adaptions and Transformations--an interview with Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill by Deborah McWiliiams Consalvo. STUDIES, Autumn 1994, Volume 83, Number 331.

The whole interview is good, but here is an excerpt directly on the issue that you were interested in:

Interviewer:...How would describe your own approach to language and literary construction?

Ní Dhomhnaill: "The Irish language for me is a kind of political tool. The whole political approach to the Irish language is totally shibbolethic--and it's not for real. It's political rather than educational. The whole language issue in Ireland is an example of what Joe Lee calls the 'heroic levels of self-deception'. For instance, the educational system in this country does not even accept the teaching of Irish as a second language. Schools insist it be taught as a first language. It is a first language for some but for 95 per cent of the population Irish is not their first language. It should, therefore, be taught as a second language. If it were taught as a second language it would be taught practically, using the method of applied linguistics ...and it would be great fun. But nobody tries to teach Irish that way.

In spite of the appalling misuse of Irish in the school system, many people in the country have a deep love of the language. But because of the way the language is taught, the whole country is becoming horribly disenfranchised. There are fewer and fewer possibilities in modern culture for preserving--never mind promoting--language diversity (bilingualism) as a different mode of being. Our whole country has become seriously disenfrancised: we have been cut off from our own past'.

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Gavin
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Username: Gavin

Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 10:24 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Wow...it has been a while, but I do remember this article. And i think there is a good debate here...I think anyone that has read my posts, knows I have a serious concern for the current Irish teaching methods in Ireland.

My only thought, is that I would like to see the opposite happen. If they are going to claim Irish as a first language...then every course should be taught in it. And I think this is starting to happen, but it is a little slow for my liking.

There are schools here in the southern US facing a similar problem with Spanish. They are completely being taught in Spanish with English being treated as a second language...what we are seeing is that students are having trouble because they are coming out of the school systems with limited English skills. When research was done on it, we learned one of the major reasons was that like most schools, they were not funding or supporting the SLP (secondary language program).

While I might not completely agree with the method, at least by treating Irish as a first language they are forcing people to acknowledge it. I fear that if it were given a secondary language status in the schools, the numbers would take a serious drop because these types of programs tend to be avoided by students if they can get away with it. While it may be a more enjoyable form of learning...only those who are interested in learning will take the classes. And the number of not interested usually outnumbers the interested. When this happens...schools have a funny way a dropping programs with few students.

And that could be devastating...

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 543
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A William a chara,

GRMA for remembering me and sending me this.

Irish needs to be taught in an engaging way to _all the students because if it is made optional it will indeed be cut eventually due to lack of interest, because lets face it, when kids can choose between something that can be difficult and something easier they usually will go for the easier things unless they have a true interest in the more challenging subject.

I still am in favor of the Antaine Method, start with Kindergardten and make all these classes irish medium, then add another grade each year until all grades are taught through Irish. I know that would be controversial but sometimes controversy shouldn't be avoided.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 22
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 01:25 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I still can't understand why a workable program has not yet been developed to instill Irish *as* a mother tongue into children at that critical time when they're just beginning to learn language.

As I've said elsewhere, I have a co-worker here in the Northwest United States who is not a native speaker of the language of his heritage (Italian), so he and his wife made the effort to *learn it*, and are now raising their two baby daughters to speak it natively. They appear to be having spectacular success, as their five-year-old daughters have a far better Italian vocabulary than their parents do!

In the end, I suppose it comes down to what you value and how much you value it.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3773
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 04:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

You understimate the difficulty.

Ireland is an english speaking society. It takes a lot of additional effort to teach your children a language different to that of society.

Most parents in Ireland simply don't have the energy, or the skills.

And the level of resources in the US for Italian is likely to be far greater than the level of resources (books, tapes, etc) for Irish.

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Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 11:20 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

" still can't understand why a workable program has not yet been developed to instill Irish *as* a mother tongue into children at that critical time when they're just beginning to learn language"

The only way of instilling children brought up in language X to be natives of language Y is to put them in a concentration camp and force them to switch. I daresay bigger problems would arise from that

"In the end, I suppose it comes down to what you value and how much you value it"

There is not enough to create a critical mass to force such a change

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 01:20 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aonghus agus Bearnaigh, I was not clear enough on my point; my apologies.

The resources for Italians in this part of the United States are practically nil. Here in the Northwest, the only European ethnic groups to have preserved their languages are Swedes and Norwegians. Aside from them, the vast majority of us are English monoglot pioneer stock, or newcomers such as myself. There is an infinitessimally small Italian population here.

Despite that, my friend learned Italian and is raising his children to speak it as a mother tongue. (And all without the benefit of a concentration camp!)

My point is simply that if he can accomplish this, here, with the dearth of resources he experiences... I cannot comprehend how Irish people cannot replicate his efforts with a whole government backing the language program.

I'm not casting aspertions, I simply find it inexplicable.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3776
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 07:06 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My point is that in Italy there are resources which as easy to get.

As someone who is bringing children up bilingually, first in Germany now in Ireland, I know the difficulty at first hand.

At present I have the difficulty that books which are intellectulaly challenging for my bookworm son just aren't available in Irish; he is reading stuff way ahead in German and in English of what is available in Irish. Transaltoins from english are no use; why should he bother raeding something again?

quote:

with a whole government backing the language program.



The're not, at least, not terribly effectively! It is some help, but it still involves parents going the extra mile. Many do. Most don't.

Those that do can often be found at http://www.comhluadar.ie

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Aindréas
Member
Username: Aindréas

Post Number: 151
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 02:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aonghus, does your son prefer to read on in one language more than anoter? Is he very eager to get ahold of books in Irish, or kind of passive about it?

Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3782
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 04:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

He's reluctant to read books in Irish. It's a vicious circle. The books that would interest him aren't there in any great number; so his vocabulary is greater in german and english. When he gets an interesting book in Irish, he finds its vocabulary challenging - because he's not used to reading in Irish.

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Riona
Member
Username: Riona

Post Number: 546
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 12:55 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Aonghuis,

Would that be boy number aon no do, not saying their names here because I don't know how you'd feel about that, I'd imagine you'd possibly not prefer it. Just curious as to which one you mean since I met them.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3784
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 06:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The elder. The younger doesn't read as much (yet) in any language.



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