mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (September-October) » Archive through September 24, 2006 » Gaelg « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Diarmo
Member
Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 201
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 05:17 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I've been trying to learn some Manx recently via the language forum on Unilang..do any of you guys recognise in Irish or Scots Gaelic similarities to the words below??? for example Yinnagh oo in Manx could be dhéanach thú in a proto-Gaelic???



This lesson will be on the conditional tense. The conditional is formed in two ways in Manx, "would be (adjective)" and "would be (verb)ing".

Veign = I would be (adjective)
Nagh beign = I wouldn't be (adjective)
Veagh oo = You would be (adjective)
Nagh beagh oo = You wouldn't be (adjective)

Yinnin = I would (verb)
Yinnagh oo = You would (verb)
Nagh jinnin = I wouldn't (verb)
Nagh jinnagh oo = You wouldn't (verb)

Note that all forms other than "mee" follow the "oo" structure. For example:

Veagh shin mayrney = We would be happy
Yinnagh shin goll = We would go

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3764
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 06:31 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Veign = bheinn
Yinnin = dhéanfhainn

Yinnagh shin goll = Dhéanadh sinn dul

agus mar sin de.

More Welsh, Norse and English influence on the orthography; ach gaeilge atá ann.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1432
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 06:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yinnagh oo = *dhéanadh thú . It's not a proto-Gaelic but a new form that has emerged from Middle Irish, and is present in Scottish and Manx, but normally not in Irish (maybe few dialects have it).

Veign = bheinn
Nagh beign = nach (m)beinn
Veagh oo = *bheadh thú (bheifeá in Irish)

Yinnin = dhéan(f)ainn

Yinnagh shin goll = *Dhéanadh sinn gabháil/dul.

In Manx they often use the verb "jean" (to do) as an auxiliary verb for tenses like past or future. In some Irish dialects (Connemara), they can do the same in some cases: dhéanfaidh mé a cheartú instead of ceartóidh mé é.

Note that "nagh" (=Irish nach) isn't followed by the eclipsis in Manx (nor in Scottish Gaelic) while it is in Irish:

Irish "nach mbeinn" // Manx "nagh beign", Scottish "nach bithinn".

Tír Chonaill abú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Diarmo
Member
Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 202
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 06:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Mersi dit Lughaidh! GRMA Aongus

An bhfuil sibh ag stáidear Gaelg freisin?

I thought beign might be a typo and it should be being?? cad a cheapann sibh??

(Message edited by diarmo on September 21, 2006)

(Message edited by diarmo on September 21, 2006)

(Message edited by diarmo on September 21, 2006)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3768
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 08:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Léigh amach ós árd duit féin é.

Gaeilge atá ann; níl ann ach go bhfuil an scríobh eagsumhal.

Fch mar shampla seo: http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaelg/lettraghey.html

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Diarmo
Member
Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 203
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 08:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ar feabhas go raibh maith agat!

I suppose by referring to it as Manx many wouldnt realise it's close relationship to Irish!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 10:36 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What service to re-intoduction is given by such a preposterous (and that is the only suitable word) spelling system? It's like some sort of code!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3770
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 10:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Only to those expecting Irish orthography.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearnaigh (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 11:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

No, that's not what I meant. If they want to increase the number of speakers thru reintroduction then orthographic oddities could be removed. The orthography is not the language itself, so it has retained a v/p distinction in phones, then the irish system is a possibility, or maybe increase the number of letters used. If it has only plain consonants, just spell it appropriatly.

I still feel the system employed is baroque, to say the least

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Llorcan
Member
Username: Llorcan

Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 12:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have to weigh in on this one. When a language has to be compromised by using the orthography of another language (English, in this case) it has already sold its soul. Late Cornish did the same thing - that's the reason for the current infighting over a new spelling system. Since Manx has so few learners anyway why not bring it in line with the other Gaelics? Even Mark Kermode hinted at the possibility of a Gaelic-based orthography. The linguist Heinrich Wagner didn't even use Manx spelling in his Linguistic Atlas and Survey of Irish Dialects which included Scots Gaelic and Manx but used IPA texts.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1434
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 02:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I wouldn't say that Manx is Irish. The grammar has some very different stuff, the pronunciation has been simplified and sometimes changed a lot, and there are many words that can't be understood even if you know Irish and Scottish Gaelic.

It'd be nice to use a more Gaelic-like spelling, but maybe the language would lose a part of its strangeness and appeal :-) .

If you want to see the peculiarities of Manx, have a look at the chapter about Manx in 'Stair na Gaeilge', if you can buy or borrow this book. You learn a lot with it.

(Message edited by Lughaidh on September 22, 2006)

Tír Chonaill abú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Llorcan
Member
Username: Llorcan

Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 03:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It certainly has strangeness and perhaps it would have wider appeal if it used a Gaelic spelling. I quote:


"An entire book could be written on Manx orthography, but it would appear never to have been particularly popular with those who used it. The Vicars General who assisted Phillips apparently dismissed it as unintelligable (and they were native speakers) but had to perservere with the wishes of their Bishop nonetheless. The orthography established in this initial exercise has remained virtually unchanged over the subsequent history of the language.

The advent of computer technology has now presented us with an opportunity to revise the orthography if we so desire, but I am sure that you will appreciate that it is, nonetheless, an awesome task and may not be seen for some time yet!

As fy-yerrey, t'eh orrym gra "Nollick Ghennal erriu"
(As fa-dhiara ta é orm gré "Nolaic Gheanal eriú")

Mark Kermode / Mark Mac Dhiarmaid
Mannin"



©Daltaí na Gaeilge