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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (July-August) » Taispeáint amháin - pronunciation « Previous Next »

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AndrewBrosnan (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 69.50.53.229
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 04:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi,

Could anyone help with the pronunciation of the phrase Taispeáint amháin? I've tried a few pronunciation guides and I keep coming up with something different. :-)

Thanks for any help.

Andrew

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Mac Léinn na Gaeilge (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 198.175.154.212
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 04:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

tash pawnt uh wahn (the last syllable may be pronounced "vahn"

That's the best I can do, wait for further input/ corrections.

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Niallmac
Member
Username: Niallmac

Post Number: 66
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 04:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Perfect, except the last syllable would be pronounced 'wahn'

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 49
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 07:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dialect again!

It's pronounced as "uh-wawn" in Ulster or Connacht, "uh-vawn" in Munster.

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Niallmac
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Username: Niallmac

Post Number: 67
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 08:57 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

i was unaware it was pronounced uh-vawn in munster.. intersting

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Barney (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 159.134.220.241
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 03:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

More precisely, the 'v' in Munster is for younger speakers (it did not become prevailent till the second half of the 20th century, as per the records at my disposal) a labio-dental, which one could say is /vʲ/ (or /v'/). All the living dialects had the /w/ vs. /wʲ/ (w'), till not so long ago, that is, bi-labial (IPA: β vs βʲ)

A labio-dental is where the upper teeth make contact with the lower lip while speaking.

Conemara has the labio-dental too, but varies it with the bi-labial, depending on position. Donegal tends to hold onto older sounds longer, so it is not surprising it still has the bi-labials. Labio-dental are from English.

Bi-labials, are as one might imagine, where both lips are used, the top teeth tucked in behind the upper lip, and lower teeth behind lower lips.

An interesting thing i have observed in English speakers in Ireland, is the erronous notion that there is only 'v' in all positions, so one gets 'bhí' and 'leamh' pronounced the same way. Even with the new Munster 'w', one can have a 2-way distinction, using a sort of German 'v', as in (que cliche accent!) 'I vwhill be here' (plus lip rounding), versus, a 'v' with the lips spread.

I agree pronouncing final 'mh' and 'bh' broad might be odd for native english speakers; compare: 'how now brown cow' where all final 'w' sounds are unvoiced. I am not commenting on best practice, just remarking on observations I have made.

In Ulster Irish down to Cavan, there seemed to have been some dynamic with the slender version where in Southern, Donegal, and Connacht Irish one would have gotton the broad sound-'an Cabhán' (Cavan Town) pronounced with apparently a slender sound. Listen to TG4 and the presenters use a broad sound for it.

Finally, one can have both labio-dental broad & slender w/v a broad/slender bi-labial set.

I hope this is not too confusing

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Mac Léinn na Gaeilge (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 198.175.154.212
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 03:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Very interesting Barney - go raibh maith agat. From my various instructional books on Irish, I've always read that when "mh" is followed by either an "a," "o," or "u," it's pronounced as "w." And when "mh" is followed by an "e" or "i" it's pronounced as a "v." So I could never figure out why I would hear things like "amháin" pronounced with a "v" sound. Your explanation on dialectical variations and the historical changes that have taken place now make it very clear to me.

I now even know what a labio-dental is. Thanks!

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1404
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 04:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What is "taispeáint amháin" supposed to mean ? One showing?

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Niallmac
Member
Username: Niallmac

Post Number: 73
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 03:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

actually ye, wat is the sentence Andrew.

could be 'a single exhibition' or something similiar

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Mac Léinn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 198.175.154.212
Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 02:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think this thread's question was asked recently on another thread. The requestor was looking for "only one show" I think.



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