A Dhaoine Uasail,


In my readings I often see “d’ + verbal noun” (ex. d’ithe) used to denote the past tense. I can’t find a description of this usage in “Learning Irish.” Is this a matter of dialect? How common is this kind of construction? Is this “d’’ , the preposition “do?”

By the way, I was on Inis Mór a couple of weeks ago and was able to negotiate renting bicycles in my Gaeilge briste.

quote:

Is this “d’’ , the preposition “do?”

Sin é.

Do becomes d' before a vowel. I don't think that is a matter of dialect, but the exact use of "do" might be.

a) Ba mhaith liom mo dhinnéir a ithe anois
b) Ba mhaith liom mo dhinnéir d'ithe anois

I have a feeling b) is valid in some dialects but a) is what I would say.

However, D'ith mé mo dhinnéir inné.

Well done on the bike rental!! I hope you enjoyed Inis Mór.

It is covered in Learning Irish - on p122. Apparently the do particle was once needed for all verbs, but began to be pronounced rarely, and was only actually heard in front of a vowel or fh, so that in Connemara you are only prefixing d' in front of a vowel or fh. But in principle, all verbs had the do in front of them in the past originally. See Teach Your Self Irish by Myles Dillon for more examples.

In my readings I often see “d’ + verbal noun” (ex. d’ithe) used to denote the past tense.

It isn't d' + verbal noun for the past tense, but d' + root of the verb (ie. the imperative 2sg form).

I can’t find a description of this usage in “Learning Irish.” Is this a matter of dialect? How common is this kind of construction? Is this “d’’ , the preposition “do?”

Yes, it is.

I think you aren't talking about the past tense but about using "d'" before a verbal noun in verbal noun clauses: ba mhaith liom rud éigin d'ithe, rud éigin do dhéanamh, etc (am i right?).
If it is what you mean, i can tell you that using "do" or "d'" before a verbal noun is a Munster Irish feature. In the other dialects, that "do" has become "a" (and "a dh'" before a vowel in Donegal). It is that "a" you'll find in Learning Irish, because it deals with Connemara Irish, not with Munster one.


I don't think that is a matter of dialect,

It is: Munster. And earlier literary Irish as well (ie. written Irish before the XVIIIth century).

However, D'ith mé mo dhinnéar inné.

That's right but that isn't the same problem, Jim, in that sentence d'ith is in the past and it is conjugated; OBJECT + do/d' + VERBAL NOUN isn't the same stuff.


Standard Irish :
Ba mhaith liom rud éigin a ithe. (I'd like to eat something)
Ba mhaith liom rud éigin a dhéanamh. (I'd like to do something)

Connemara:
Ba mhaith liom rud eicínt a ithe.
Ba mhaith liom rud eicínt a dhéanamh.

Donegal:
Ba mhaith liom rud inteacht a dh'ithe.
Ba mhaith liom rud inteacht a dhéanamh.

Munster:
Ba mhaith liom rud eicínt d'ithe.
Ba mhaith liom rud eicínt do dhéanamh.



Now, d' before a conjugated verb in the past (and NOT a verbal noun):

Standard Irish:
D'ith mé mo dhinnéar.
Thóg mé an leabhar. (I took the book)

Connemara:
D'ith mé mo dhinnéar.
Thóg mé an leabhar.

Donegal:
D'ith mé mo dhinneár.
Thóg mé an leabhar.

Munster:
D'itheas/ Dh'itheas mo dhinnéar.
Do thógas an leabhar.

quote:

However, D'ith mé mo dhinnéar inné.

That's right but that isn't the same problem, Jim, in that sentence d'ith is in the past and it is conjugated; OBJECT + do/d' + VERBAL NOUN isn't the same stuff.

I'll just add a historical note here, mura miste libh. The do which is used as a past tense marker (d'ith sé, and Munster do thóg sé) is originally a different beast entirely from the preposition do (which Lughaidh has admirably explained). The past tense do is a verbal particle, actually a variant of the particle ro which appears only in contracted form in negative and question sentences:

D'ith sé é. = He ate it.
NíoR ith sé é. = He didn't eat it.
AR ith sé é? = Did he eat it?
NáR ith sé é? = Didn't he eat it?

Go raibh maith agaibh!

I haven’t had a chance to digest everyone’s comments completely, but it it seems I was confusing the “do+ pronoun object + verbal noun” (pg. 74 Learning Irish) with the “d' + 2nd person imp.”= past tense when the verb begins with “f “or a vowel.

Y’all might be interested in this datum, O’Dónail cites these examples under “do2”:

D’ól sé = he drank
D’óladh sé = he used to drink
D’ólfadh sé = he would drink

Which I think fits with Learning Irish’s chp 22 and page 122.