"Non-Irish nationals legally resident in Ireland may be eligible for citizenship through naturalization if they have been legally resident in the country for a total period of four years within an eight year period. Applicants must provide one year prior notification of their intention to apply and must show proof that they intend to reside in Ireland after naturalization." - Embassy of Ireland



My question is, if you're not a citizen, then how do they expect you to spend four years out of eight in Ireland? Take alot of vacations?

I think one way would be to have a work permit allowing you to stay for the required period.

Another would be marriage to a native, or neo-native Irish citizen.




Caighdeán Oifigiúil Abú!

yeah, you'll need some kind of visa or something to let you stay the required time. withholding such documents allows the gov't to retain control over who can potentially qualify. my assumption is, being an american, that i simply won't be able to manage to get permission to spend the required amount of time in 8 years...

Other point is that EU nationals don't need neither visa, nor work permit, so staying for 4 years is a piece of cake.

EA abú! ;-)

quote:

EA abú! ;-)

That's a very East Europeaan point of view! Although I note the wink too. In fact, Ireland has become a headache to the European Union, in that treaties need to be passed by referendums, and it is quite a tall order to get these passed! He! He!

AE abú!

Various contries use referenda, not just Ireland.

Some countries have a history of fear of plebiscites (germany for example) but in fact, Ireland, unlike say Denmark, only rejected one treaty by referendum (and they made us vote again on that one until we gave the "right" answer).

Go raibh maith agat, a Aonghuis. I realised that I mixed up the letters after I hit the send button, ach do bhí ana-leisce orm to edit it. So I left it stand ;-))

(Message edited by Róman on July 27, 2006)

Time to call the Embassy of Ireland...

This means that I can become an Irish citizen through naturalisation too! After all, Norway is an EEA country.

But OASIS.gov.ie says:

Who is eligible for naturalisation?

If you wish to become an Irish citizen through naturalisation, you must:

* Be 18 years or older (you must be married if you are under the age of 18) or,
* Be a minor born in the State (from 1 January 2005) and
* Be of good character - the Garda Síochána (Ireland's national police) will be asked to provide a report about your background. Any criminal record or ongoing proceedings will be taken into consideration by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in deciding whether or not to grant naturalisation. Details of any proceedings, criminal or civil, in the State or elsewhere, should be disclosed in the application form, and
* Have had a period of one year's continuous reckonable residence in the State immediately before the date of your application for naturalisation and, during the eight years preceding that, have had a total reckonable residence in the State amounting to four years. To find out what reckonable residence is, see the section below on calculation of periods of residence and,
* Intend in good faith to continue to reside in the State after naturalisation and,
* Make a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State (see below for the point in the process at which this is required).

A minor born in the state? There's no hope for me then?

sure there is...turn 18 ;-)

I'm 20. So there is hope for me?

quote:

My question is, if you're not a citizen, then how do they expect you to spend four years out of eight in Ireland? Take alot of vacations?

Vacations won't count.

Essentially, Irish citizenship is for **Irish** people. The government does not have to provide you with a mechanism to fulfil the residence requirement, because it is a small country whose obligations are not to the world, but to the Irish nation. Those who for a legitimate reason manage to live in Ireland for the requisite period - people with skills to get work permits and so forth - are considered people who have already made a good start at integration, and so qualify for citizenship. But the governnment is not guaranteeing that its regulations will facilitate anyone and everyone living in ireland for 4 years in order to fill the residence requirement for citizenship.

It might actually be easier to go another route: O'Dwyer what other EU nationalities might you qualify for? If you qualify for UK nationality - easier, I believe - then you can go to Ireland for 4 years and get their passport too (although you don't strictly need it as an EU passport suffices, but you probably want it as a keepsake).

As for Norwegians, well I don't know how the EEA relates to the EU. Norwegiandame could probably live in Ireland easily for 4 years - I don't think it is difficuilt for EEA nationals to life in the EU. Otherwise, she might qualify for another passport too. Do you have a Swedish or Danish grandmother? There are a few solutions.

and, honestly, that is the way it should be!

although I do believe that having a masters degree, or doctorate, or nursing license (and perhaps several other specific degrees) give you a leg up on "special skills"

also note, that having a student visa for the required years is not good enough. even for double the required years is not. at least one year out of all that must be on a non-student visa (work visa or similar), while the rest can be a student visa. so even if you manage to wrangle going to school there for four or five years you'll still need one non-student year to complete the requirement.

A Karhu,

My grandparents on my mother's side were born and raised in England. My grandmother on my father's side was born in England, but moved to Australia, where my grandfather born and raised. My dad was born in Australia, then moved to the U.S. when he was about seven. There have been O'Dwyers in Australia since before the famine.

Antaine - "Having a master's degree" etc, shouldn't entitle you to special consideration unless it was in some profession that had a great shortage of workers. Irish professionals are well educated and there is no great dearth of degree holders there.

quote:

The government does not have to provide you with a mechanism to fulfil the residence requirement, because it is a small country whose obligations are not to the world, but to the Irish nation.

Good point, yet Ireland has made significant contributions recently "to the world" in accepting a relatively large number of immigrants to the country, especially from Poland. I think the number of immigrants in total from Poland is something like 250,000?

Perhaps those of us who desire Irish citizenship could do it by way of "language refugee" status. . Or on a more practical note, are there any dearth of positions in the language-arts area? I kind of got that impression, perhaps wrongly, of dearthness when attending Oideas Gael sometime back. There were at the Oideas Gael classes a number of younger students who were education majors/graduates and other areas of study and were looking to increase their Irish-language skill sets to become teachers. So, I guess my question is, would teaching be an area where there is a need to fulfill positions and if so, could members here on Daltaí use their Irish-language skills as a stepping stone into the education field if they were so inclined?

Karhu: As an EEA-national I need no work permits or special papers to live and work in Ireland. That's what EEA can do for me.

I have read on OASIS.gov.ie that time spent studying in Ireland is not considered 'reckonable residence' so I would have to get full-time employment there and live there for most of the year for many years.

lucy-

as a non-eu citizen, one would have to wait first for all the irish, then for all other qualified eu citizens (those who apply, mind you) for a job opening. if one has a terminal degree, the pool of competition is significantly smaller as there are fewer PhDs out there than not.

For instance, consider a university professor position. If I have a terminal degree, then I qualify where most people in Ireland and the EU do not and therefore would not even be applying for the position. Of those in Ireland and the rest of the EU that do qualify and applied, 1) I speak fluent english (perhaps eliminating many from EU countries) 2) If by then I also speak fluent Irish, that may eliminate almost all of the EU competition as well as most if not all of the Irish competition for that particular position (depending on how important Gaeilge is to that position/institution).

something like that.

when i was looking into this some time back, i did find that terminal degrees (even masters) or training in much-needed areas greatly increased your chances of being granted a visa enough to meet the requirements of citizenship. perhaps that's special treatment, but people with graduate degrees are special people in that they have a qualification that most people do not, no matter what country you're looking at.

I think the amount of poles are more around 100000, and one of them is my girlfriend ;-) .. Theres not only a large minority of polish, but latvian (i think 30000), chinese (???20-30000), Lithuanians (20000??), Russians (20000??) other minor minorities that make up the rest..

according to CSO, 186000 immigrants have moved to ireland since 2002, and more look to them

(Message edited by niallmac on July 31, 2006)

In 30 years Ireland will be a Slavic nation. . . Yay.

Ceist. Má foghlaim mé ar ardcheim/PhD sa Sean-Ghaeilge/Meáin-Ghaeilge(sp??????), an mbeidh mé a job a fháil in Eirinn?

Please correct me if that's incorrect.

Antaine - I think you misunderstood me. I said degrees would not qualify someone unless it was in a field that had a shortage of native applicants. I don't know where you got the statistics that said there were few terminal or PhD degree holders in Ireland but I doubt that the teaching profession lacks for educated applicants.

Also most educated EU members are fluent in English and some in Irish as well so I don't see you getting the edge there. And I think it would be quite some time before you were more fluent in Irish than the Irishborn degree holders who studied Irish from grammar school on. Lastly, there are those American-born Irish who are as well-qualified as you and citizens to boot.

Graduate degree holders are special if there is a shortage in their field but if it's carpenters that are lacking. well sceal eile.

quote:

In 30 years Ireland will be a Slavic nation. . . Yay.

I think this comment is very inappropriate by someone who claims to want Irish citizenship. It means she would welcome the complete expropriation of the Irish nation.

I will cease to respond to the posts of or try to help in any way Norwegiandame. She has revealed herself to be an enemy of the Irish nation.

I suspect that Norwegiandame was just teasing/being sarcastic and forgot to put a little smiley face after her post. I doubt that she has any ill intentions for the future of Eire. I wrote something the other day for instance that would have gotten me in potential trouble but because of a smiley face we all didn't get into a massive fight.

Beir bua agus beannacht

lol... i think you need to relax karhu, ROFL

Mythologically speaking, the Irish (the Sons of Míl) at least partially expropriated Ireland from the Tuatha Dé Danaan after the Battle of Tailltiú

Though I love Irish and the Irish nation, I have a soft spot in my heart for the old Fairy Nation.

And I have heard that they speak excellent Irish.

I need a massive smiley face for this one.

Lucy...I don't mean the degree thing as a slight. I just mean that far fewer people pursue doctorates than masters degrees, fewer pursue masters degrees than bachelors. So a field open to PhD applicants only would exclude most people in any country. Then add to that that not every person with a PhD will be looking for a new position, and not every one who is will want the particular position in question and the pool of possible new hires gets even smaller.

While a significant number of European doctorate holders speaking fluent english sounds reasonable, a number significant enough for calculation purposes here speaking fluent Irish does not.

And even in Ireland, every doctor, scientist and American Lit professor speaks fluent Irish? Just because one has advanced to a terminal degree in their field doesn't mean they studied any more Irish than to fill the basic requirements to do what they really wanted, or used the language at all since leaving the university.

One doesn't have to be some godlike candidate for the job, beating thousands of applicants in Ireland and all other EU countries simultaneously, just able to have something special about them that puts them over their direct competition for that particular position at the time of interview...and speaking Irish may be just the thing to do it as so few people are fluent.

And it may not even really come down to all that. People from the US are granted citizenship each year. Just being the best potential asset to Irish society, academia or economy may bump one to the head of that list, before the other Americans, so if 500 will be granted visas that year, a PhD holder fluent in Irish is more likely to get one than someone with more mundane credentials.

Karhu, I was being a little sarcastic. Don't worry. Ireland becoming a Slavic nation is the worst thing I can ever imagine. All the Irish culture fading under the streams of Polish construction workers who want to earn more than they do back home. Dreadful!!

Antaine, that was a very nice post. Go raibh maith 'ad!