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Ceolmhar
Member Username: Ceolmhar
Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 05:51 pm: |
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I was listening to a program about trad music on RTÉ 1 there on the way home (for those that don't know, it's an English language radio station). Anyway, the presenter had a fella in with an accordian and he was playing a few tunes. The two of them would chat away between songs, talking about family and different instruments, etc. They were both definitly native Irish speakers and it was interesting listening to there use of English - I can't describe it exactly but it was their use of words that just seemed so poetic and interesting. Not the usual drivel chat that is on the radio all the time. I could tell the accordian player was holding back a bit on his words and I kept expecting them both to lapse into Irish but they couldn't. I just thought it was a shame that they HAD to speak English! Another thing, I'm just back from Árainn and my sister said she met a guy from the Conamara Gaeltacht who had very little English. He couldn't write English (preferring to draw pictures) and would constantly lapse into Irish during conversation. Of course, my sister had to buy all the pints to keep him talking. They're hard to come by, but Irish monoglots do exist in some form! Críoch Please correct me if you have the time }:-D
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 413 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:54 pm: |
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A Cheolmhar a chara mor, Sure and this is the most exciting post I've read in a long time!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go raibh mile maith agat for writing it! In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, this is my most favorite subject pertaining to Ireland/Irish! I know I look stupid right now but I'm just so interested and captivated with any information I can find about the very last few Irish monoglots or near-monoglots. I wish I could have heard that radio program, I would have found that really intriguing and interesting to listen to. And A Cheolmhar could you tell me more about your sister's visit with this man in Conamara, le do thoil. Any information anyone has in connection with this topic would be greatly appreciated. I've run out of ideas of late as to whare to look. GRMA Beir bua agus beannacht. |
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Ceolmhar
Member Username: Ceolmhar
Post Number: 128 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 12:40 am: |
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I'll ask her the next time I see her. She was equally as fascinated. We couldn't find him on Árainn last week unfortunately. I'll keep you updated. It’s a very interesting subject. Please correct me if you have the time }:-D
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Eavan
Member Username: Eavan
Post Number: 8 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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Please excuse my ignorance--what/where is árain? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 3456 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:30 pm: |
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Árainn - otherwise known as Inishmore, Co Galway. |
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 416 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 08:34 pm: |
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A Cheolmhar a chara, How much Irish does your sister have? Hopefully a lot so that she could visit lots with the man from Conamara. I look forward to hearing back from you on both acounts. Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Ceolmhar
Member Username: Ceolmhar
Post Number: 135 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 09:31 pm: |
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Leaving Cert level. She's far from fluent but can communicate well. He drew her a picture on how to make pampooties! Please correct me if you have the time }:-D
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 422 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 02:41 am: |
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I know I sound foolish but this is one of the most exciting and interesting topics in the world to me, I mean Irish monoglots, not pamputies :). So if anyone ever hears anything or learns anything or sees anything, I really appreciate it being told here as Ceolmhar has done. Just the all of you keep that in mind as you go about your daily tasks. I like to know everything I can in this area. GRMA a chairde. |
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Odwyer
Member Username: Odwyer
Post Number: 157 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 12:53 pm: |
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The best place to find monoglots, my guess is, are the islands and fishing communities. Ceartaígí mo chuid Ghaeilge, le bhur dtoil!
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 442 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 06:49 pm: |
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For the sake of curiousity, I counted up all the people that I have heard accounts of who are monoglot to some capacity. This includes people who probably had/have a bit of English. This list goes from the 70s to today. I counted 19 different people who were either mentioned here or on other websites or who I saw on a couple of documentaries. Among them their were 13 men and 6 women. The fact that I, a mere American woman with a bit of time on her hands, can uncover that many, means that there must be more out there than we know or are willing to admit. Only a few of these examples are from the 70s and 80s as far as I know. My theory, maybe not PC but still a theory none the less is that contrary to my results there are perhaps more women of this persuasion than men. The men are just the ones who are mentioned more because they are seen at the pub or other places that tourists frequent. If this theory is rubbish than feel free to correct me. Anyway I thought this might be an interesting little project to calculate out. Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Dan G (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 10:24 pm: |
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Riona, I too have a big interest when it comes to the topic of Irish monoglots. Have you come across any books that deal with the topic as the central issue? My understanding was that the last true monoglots died in the 1960s. Although I understand there are still some older folks who prefer not to use English (generally come from places such as Inis Meain) I lived in Ireland for 9 months (just got back earlier this year) but I was based in County Wicklow so native Irish speakers are few and far between. |
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 449 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 01:18 am: |
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A chara, I don't know of any books, just a couple of videos done in the 70s and 80s which have 2-minute segments showing people who had little or no English. I know all that business that the last monoglots died out in the 60s but sure and I don't believe it, I have seen and heard enough to think otherwise. In my list I include people who might have a little bit of English but for all intents and purposes they are monoglot enough to count. Most of these acounts of people have come from people around here, to them I say go raibh mile maith agat for giving me such stories of their experiences. Eamon O'Cuiv mentioned it in some address to the Dail in the later 90s and the woman at Department of Community Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs said yes there were some, I knew it but I wanted to hear it from someone official, hard to find anyone official who will admit it you know. I decided to narrow it further by cutting out the 70s and 80s people and mention the number left on my list after cutting those early examples out, 15 I reckon, 5 women and 10 men. Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Aindréas
Member Username: Aindréas
Post Number: 124 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 12:05 am: |
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Not that I'm qualified to make any call, but it strikes me as more likely for there to be a greater quantity of women whose stronger language is Irish. I'm reading The Aran Islands by J.M. Synge (having checked it out at the library, thanks to Riona's suggestion; I don't think I've ever been so fascinated and addicted to a book) and Synge remarks that the great majority of men (at the beginning of the 20th century) on the islands were bilingual, while most of the women had only Irish. He also said the women were much quicker to abandon the language and gained a higher proficieny in English ... but just thought I'd bring that up. I myself am doing some research now on monolingual Welsh speakers. Riona's so into this that I can just read her updates and go from there. :-) Unfortunately I haven't had much luck at my library finding the videos you've mentioned, Riona dear. Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 452 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 01:05 am: |
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A Aindreas Sure and I adored that book, read the whole thing online because its on several websites in its entirety. Its soooooo yummy, really captivating. I wish it was longer, confounded Singe, should have gone back a couple of more times so he could write more, or just gone into more detail. I got Man Of Aran on Netflicks (you must be getting the DVD or you miss the really important on the special features). My friend who uses the library in the next county got me a copy of Trojan War, and she also got me a copy of Story Of English 8 which supposedly has that same guy from Trojan. Sure and wouldn't you know it, the tape was broken so I didn't get to watch it. I was so confounded irritated that I wanted to say nasty things to whoever didn't promptly replace the broken version before I could get disappointed. So I need to check at my own library to see about getting a copy of it. Whare do live Aindreas, I don't mean to pry by any means. Its kind of sad in a way that I'm now the resident expert on this topic, even though I've never been to Eire. So what have you found about monolinguel Welsh speakers, out of curiousity. I've pretty much scoured the Internet dry and I don't know whare to look next on my continuing quest to ... well...I don't really know whare all this is going. I just know that I have huge amounts of interest in those with limited English of the Irish persuasion. I probably can't do anything with all this information I've gathered in the end. ............sigh /Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 453 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 09:15 pm: |
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Aindreas a chara A quick search unearthed an article that you've probably read already, but still. Look for "Llyn's Monoglots" its an article written in the late 60s about some older people in that area, its really interesting, though it isn't exactly current. |
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Aindréas
Member Username: Aindréas
Post Number: 125 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 10:42 pm: |
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I think I've also scoured the internet pretty thouroughly for Irish monoglots, but I renew my search every so often to see what time yields. Now I'm just trying to get my hands on these tapes you mention. Did you ever see this page from soemone's blog: http://www.dervala.net/archives/000565.html Says she met a man who had "very little English." I can't remember if I ever saw that mentioned on these boards, so just in case ... As far as Welsh monoglots go, it seems not so difficult to meet someone who has trouble fully expressing themselves in English, while I think you can reasonably say that the majority of Irish speaker's stronger language is English. I'm asking around the internet right now, and am waiting for some folks to reply, and I haven't yet had any recent stories of people who could be considered true monoglots, but a girl told me about her grandparents who use poor English grammar, and her grandfather battled some illness and came out of it not being able to speak English. She said her father also struggles with spelling and grammar in English, as he didn't begin to speak it until highschool age. I'm more recently getting into this though ... and there seems to be a lot more information to look through than there was for Irish monoglots. I have indeed read that article several times. It's captivating. It makes me think that if people then had (I think we can fairly say) absolutely no English, it shouldn't be so unlikely to have people who are generally monolingual in Cymraeg. As far as my residence, Riona, I'm happy to tell you that I live in Washington state. I'm more than willing to share a more specific location with you, just not a public forum. If you'd like to know, I will gladly send you an email. Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 454 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 12:34 am: |
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A Aindreas, Sure and that is interesting. I'm glad we are putting our clever minds together on this. It's nice to know that I'm not alonein my quest. I'd really like some info on that woman's grandfather who lost his English, this concept is _really interesting. Yes I have seen that blog about Durvala, it was interesting because it is the only acount of an Irish speaking monoglot in Munster that I've run across as far as I know. My e-mail is Feel free to e-mail me a Aindreas. The reason I wanted to ask of your residence is because I live in Portland and I wondered how close you are to me. |
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Ceolmhar
Member Username: Ceolmhar
Post Number: 138 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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On Saturday I met an auldfella (88) in a Dublin pub who was a native Irish speaker from Cork. He moved to Dublin when he was 19 with his family because there was no work and has since forgotten all of his Irish. He's illiterate in both English and Irish. Please correct me if you have the time }:-D
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 464 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 05:44 pm: |
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That is too bad about him forgetting his Irish. |
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