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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (July-August) » Archive through July 26, 2006 » Old Irish consonants « Previous Next »

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Karhu
Member
Username: Karhu

Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 06:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have been reading a new book called Sengoídelc. It is about Old Irish, and was published recently, and apparently someone on this list, Dennis King, is credited with a contribution too. :-)

I found chapter 3 on the pronunciation of Old Irish unsatisfactory for a number of reasons. First, the Greek letters μ and ν are used to represent a nasalised labial fricative and a lax n respectively. The ν is particularly misleading, because it looks like a v. The other problem is that the labial fricatives are stated as being exactly the same as the English f and v - ie labiodental and not bilabial, and the book uses ɸ, not to represent a bilabial sound, but to show when an ph is being transcribed and not an f.

There is another throwaway comments in this chapter. The ɣ is confidently stated as being the same as the Ukrainian sound. Does Ukrainian have this sound? I think he is talking about the Ukrainian sound ɦ, a voiced h, nothing like ɣ.

I can't be sure, but it seems to me that the author, David Stifter, is saying that Old Irish had the following consonants (using the IPA). YOu need to use a Unicode font, like Arial to view this.




BilabialDentalAlveolarPost-alveolarPalatalVelar
PlosiveVelarizedpʰ btʰ dkʰ g
Palatalizedpʲ bʲtʲ dʲkʲ gʲ
NasalVelarizedmn̪ˠnŋ
Palatalizedɲ (=N')ŋʲ
FricativeVelarizedɸ βθ ðsç (=x')x ɣ
Palatalizedɸʲ βʲθʲ ðʲʃ (=s')
Nasalised fricativeVelarizedβ̃
Palatalizedβ̃ʲ
ApproximantVelarizedr ɾ
Palatalizedrʲ ɾʲ j (=ɣ', or would ʝ be better?)
Lateral approximantVelarizedl̪ˠl
Palatalizedʎ (=L')

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Caitrionasbcglobalnet
Member
Username: Caitrionasbcglobalnet

Post Number: 94
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 07:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I was talking to Lúcas about this site: http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/english/frameset.html in another thread but I'll bring it up again. They have the English sounds and Spanish sounds.
For Spanish it's
1.http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/english/frameset.html
2. Anatomy
3. Phonetics home
4. Launch Spanish Library
I'd love to see the Irish sounds presented in the same way.

I guess I want a lot. But wouldn't it be great?

Caitríona

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Riona
Member
Username: Riona

Post Number: 411
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Karhu a chara

Sure and there's someone called DJW (David Webb if you want to get technical about it) who just started a yahoo group about this book, look at the thread entitled same as the book if you haven't already. Then again, maybe thats what got you thinking about it in the first place, if so, then never you mind about it.

Beir bua agus beannacht



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