NATIVE SPEAKERS
For Filming Required

We are looking for students or professionals (male) present a language learning product: see www.eurotalk.com. If you have a clear voice, no strong regional accent and are a native speaker of Irish Gaelic, we would like to hear from you!

The job won’t take up much of your time, it’s not permanent but would require 5 hrs each for filming and voice-overs, We’re based in Edinburgh and offer competitive rates of pay: filming £75 and translating 120£.

Please get in touch with me by sending a CV and a recent picture to:




Runtime Revolution
15-19 York Place
Edinburgh, EH1 3EB
www.runrev.com
0131 524 6125

This sounds like an AWFUL product. Have you read any of the archives here? Nearly everyone on the daltaí list agrees that you need to learn a proper dialect of Irish, not the artificial standard created by the government, so your requirement of "no regional accent" is absurd. All native speakers of Irish have a "strong regional accent"; none of them speaks standard Irish. Your product will be fit for the wastebin.

hmm ...
I never thought that I'd be saying this, but I actually agree with D.W. on this one.

Why male? Is that not sex discrimination?

Go díreach glan, a Chaitriona!

Based on what he said in his message, it does indeed look like sex discrimination.

Not good

B'fhéidir go bhfuil cúpla bean acu cheana féin. Fir atá uathu anois le go mbeidh rogha glórtha ann. Níl a fhios againn!

quote:

Níl a fhios againn!

That's true - that is why I said, "Based on what he said ..."

I wonder what the situation is for a Native speaker in Navajo without a "strong regional accent" or for a speaker in each of the following Tamil,Xhosa,Singhalese without a
"strong regional accent" in any of the forementioned languages.
Please scrap this "Laughable request" member Eurotalk it is like asking a Scots person to speak English without a strong regional accent".
Every language on the planet has an accent depending on the region it is spoken and for someone from IRL-UK to put up such a reuest shows your immaturity and lack of planning /thinking about the project at hand.
Grow up and join the real world and leave this "Political correctness- BusinessSpeak / jargon/cliches " CRAP in the toilet bowl where it belongs.

I've already had a look at Eurotalk products before. It's better I don't give my opinion about the ones that deal with Irish: it would be difficult for me to say what I think without using rude terms :-) .

In "Talk Now! Irish", all recordings have been made by people who DO have a regional accent: an accent of the English-speaking part of Ireland!!!. Just don't believe all people who claim to be native speakers in Ireland. Many people claim it and actually just remember a couple of sentences learned by heart at school. A shame to provide such stuff to people who want to learn a language. I hope they have not made the same mistake for other languages' products.

This is not sex discrimination. He has a reason for looking for a male and we don't know that reason. But that's allright, isn't it? No reason to think he has a political agenda or doesn't like women.

"no strong regional accent and are a native speaker of Irish Gaelic"

Ceard? So you want a native Irish speaker with an English accent or something?! Ádh mór ort.

No Norwegiandame. I don't believe so. The way it has written it here, it is discrimination. Isn't it strange how so many people presume that people couldn't mean to discriminate when the reality of life is that discrimination against females is a world-wide problem. The glass ceiling is very real and I've hit my head off it many times.

There were approx. 300 girls in my year in Careysfort and about 30 lads. The lads often skipped lectures and got provided with the notes by foolish girls who liked them. When we went out into the world of employment most of the lads made principal. It doesn't mean all the lads didn't work hard but looking around the schools there was something wrong when there were many schools in Ireland where all the teachers were female except the one male who almost invariably was the principal.

One principal called me into his office to ask why I didn't wear make-up. All the other women did he told me. I told him I had no problem with it if he had a policy to introduce across the board. Or as I said to him, "As soon as you start wearing it Seamus, so will I." I've been asked in interviews how I would mind the kids - a question my husband never got asked.

It was the same thing in the civil service. The girls scored higher on tests but with the interview process mostly boys were accepted in.

I've heard employers say openly they won't hire women because they don't want to be bothered with maternity leave pay.

Yes of course it's possible that they had a female voice already and needed a male voice but that would need to be said to explain advertising for a 'male.' Women get paid less than men for the same jobs. Yes, even here in the states.http://www.pay-equity.org/

So rather than presuming innocence we need to be vigilant. The problem is real.

pc people:
did maybe you think they might have the
wymin for the voice over lined up already?
eairlier post somthin bout more wymin in classes
so why not on this board? lighten up cryin wolf all the time no one is gonna believe you when there is one.
some times a cigar is just that! seeking too hard for what is not there makes us all look foolish. the poster asked for a man, and said nothing about a woo-man
how could you read more into that? How can asking exactly for what you want be discrimination? now if he said "Women need not bother I dont need one" then rant rave and raise some Hell!! but dont read too much into these things. from what others said an iferior product
but nothing from you on that I find that Ironic!! Please dont take this as a personal attack it is not
just too much thin skin pc ness looking for a monster that is not there while the troop leader, and baby sitter are molesting the kids.
well I feel better now

Well, I'm glad you feel better.

The title 'Male Irish Gaelic Speaker in Edinburgh Required' told me I need not apply and there is only one factor that excludes me from doing the job as described in the title and that is my gender. So esentially it comes down to it being as if he said "Women need not bother. I don't need one"

Discrimination always bothers me. It's often subtle and not recognized. Discrimination against women and misogyny are taboo subjects for many people. People would rather not talk about it. But the facts are real and shock most people when they delve into the subject. See http://web.amnesty.org/actforwomen/scandal-index-eng

The Magdalene Sisters http://imdb.com/title/tt0318411/ is a good eye-opener to see how we swept things we didn't want to talk about under the carpet in Ireland. If you want an international one to really scare you try the movie '.Osama' Bhí mé ag féachaint air aréir.

Anyway the essential point is I believe in equality and that job opportunity does not offer it. I'd be interested in their response as to why they want a male speaker.

Mar sin má tá an freagra agaibh agus má tá sé simplí, scríobh ar ais chugainn agus abair linn cén fath nach bhfuil bean ag teastáil, le bhúr dtoil.

Hmmmm....

I'm putting together a dialogue that requires a male and female speaker. Perhaps two people on a date, or a husband and wife talking about the kids....Maybe an Irish Romeo and Juliet type of a scene..y'know..traditional guy and girl stuff. I have the female actress/voice but not the male. Are you telling me I have to advertise, audition or screen women even though the role clearly calls for a male character??

How about, I'm looking for a surrogate mother to carry my wife's fertilzed egg....


I think someone is a bit too quick to find evidnece of "descrimination" where none exists.

All, I'm sure Eurotalk means well. The job clearly states that it is for voice-over's and filming. Wouldn't it be odd if they voiced-over a female voice on a male actor (or vice versa)? Accusing Eurotalk of discrimination where there probably isn't could be construed as slander no?
Catríona, affirmative action programs are regional in nature. Perhaps there is a gender shortage of native irish speaking actors. I know in my local region, we have affirmative action programs to encourage male teachers.
Anyways, let's wait for Eurotalk to update and clearly state what they are looking for... and what the heck they mean by a native speaker with no regional accent??

Well, this topic seems to have been fairly well covered.

Shall we move on?

But, one last thing before we hopefully do. In the past few weeks we've noticed an increasing amount of spam being posted to the boards. Most, but not all, of it has originated from automated spambots. To address the problem, we've implemented spam controls, which are still being fine tuned.

In the interim, should anyone experience a problem posting to the boards, please let me know by emailing me at the address in my profile.

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Caoimhín

GRMA a Chaoimhin for addressing the spam issue. That one on the chips thread is completely unrelated to Irish in any way, at least this sort of has to do with it, no regional accent indeed, ha ha.

A Chaitriona a chara,
I don't think anyone's trying to invalidate your experiences. I think that you might just be reading a tiny bit too much into this. I liked James' comments, they captured the potential senario well.

I suspect that Eurotalk isn't coming back, he just posted and is gone.

Beir bua agus beannacht.

Oíche mhaith Riona.

Tá mé díreach tar éis teacht ar ais ón linn snámha. Bhí mé ar mo dhroim ins an uisce ag breathnú ar na réalta ag smaoineamh ar gach rud maith sa saol in áit a bheith ag iarraidh gach rud a dheisiú. A different perspective, d'fhéadfá a rá.

Tá súil agam go mbeidh oíche mhaith agaibh go léir.

Codladh sámh a chairde.

From the same poster in June:
http://edinburgh.gumtree.com/edinburgh/26/4820426.html

I have two Eurotalk CD/roms (Talk Now and World Talk) and I think they're both very good actually. So I find it amusing and sad to see how some of you have totally over-reacted here. It's understandable they don't want a speaker with a strong regional accent - Would anyone ever listen to it if the speaker sounded like Ian Paisley?
I know I wouldn't.

One thing that would be useful on the CD roms is to have a text option whereby you can print everything that is spoken - I found there was a bit of a the leap between Talk Now and World Talk.
I'd have learnt more from World talk if I could've seen all the Irish language dialogue written down, that's my only criticism.

Apart from that, Euro Talk products have always been beautifully put together and I look forward to this latest release.

Scríobh Riona:
GRMA a Chaoimhin for addressing the spam issue. That one on the chips thread is completely unrelated to Irish in any way, at least this sort of has to do with it

What gets my ire up is when Irish speakers, such as the person in the now-thankfully-deleted Chips thread (GRMA, a Chaoimhín!) start spamming other Irish speakers.

I confess to being somewhat underwhelmed by the Eurotalk products, but I wouldn't start accusing them of gender-bias based on an advert for a male speaker -- their products feature both men & women speakers, so they've likely already got posts filled for the female voices.

What I'd be more irked about is this "no regional accent" business -- let's face it, there is no "lárchanúint" . . . all we can do by way of sounding "standard" is to read Irish off a script written in Caighdeán Oifigiúil using whatever accent we've got. This doesn't, in my opinion, make for a good learning product, but this wouldn't be the first disappointing CD-ROM out there. I'm a bit embarrassed to see how "Irish NOW!" (by Transparent Language) turned out, since I had a small role in the grammar component of it. For any of ye who bought that, my apologies.

I bet the grammar component was great. You're sense of responsibility as part of the group project is refreshing, Cionaodh. I've been impressed by everything I've read from you on this forum so I suspect no apologies are necessary from you but once again I'm impressed by the intention and sentiment.

Yes, the title of the ad above hit a nerve with me and I still hope people read the amnesty link just for the sake of education on the shocking state of the treatment of women. Nuair a fhéacaim ar chailíní i rang os mo chomhair amach, smaoiním ar an líne ‘At least one out of every three women has been beaten, …or abused in her lifetime.’ Tuigim go dtarlóidh sé do chuid de na cailíní sin agus briseann sé mo chroí. Ba mhaith liom an domhan a athrú ach ní féidir liom ach má fheicim rud beag gur féidr liom a athrú, mar shampla, b’fhéidir an chaoi a scríobhann daoine na ads seo déanann iarracht é a dhéanamh. Ar a laghad tuigfidh tú cén fath a scríobh mé é. It may seem a huge leap from an ad to the amnesty statistics but the source of women’s sense of low self esteem is built into so many things we say and do that we generally don’t see it. Ar aon nós, taking on board what you said about their products gender-bias probably wasn’t the intention but I hope they phrase their next ad better both on the gender and accent issues.

I was probably hard on Gaeltalk. Almost every project doesn’t start out as good as it could be and improves as it goes along but they are doing something and should be encouraged so I’ll take back my reaction with the hurt nerves and respectfully request that in a case where females may not apply that it be pointed out that they already have the female position filled. As others have pointed out the wording on accent will also need a major revision. So sorry Gaeltalk but please understand that the wording of the ad offended people on different levels and I wish you all the luck in the world with the project and hope you can reword the ad so the next time someone reads it you’ll get a much more positive response.

Dia duit!
What does "Nil a fhios againn!" mean?
And I think that everyone permanently sacared away Eurotalk. I'm new, so I'm wondering if this happens often...

Eavan, it means "we don't know".

Hi Eavan,
Welcome. "Nil a fhios againn!" means 'We don't know!'
I hope we didn't scare you too. I agree with what was said about the accents so on a point like that, yeah, I think people will come out strongly on something they see as unjust or wrong. But the group is full of wonderful people who devote a lot of time to help people with Irish and there is a lot of goodwill here. If you spend some more time here I think you'll see what I mean in other posts.

Karhu,
Your response wasn't posted when I wrote mine so sorry for repeating it.
C

Scríobh Caitrionasbcglobalnet:
I was probably hard on Gaeltalk

Actually, the advert was from Eurotalk, who make language CD-ROMs.

Gaeltalk are a group of nice folks on Oileán Chléire (http://www.gaeltalk.net) who run a low-cost interactive online course in beginners' Irish (Munster dialect) which also offers an opportunity to chat live with native speakers. A nice resource for those wanting to learn Irish but who can't afford a trip to a Gaeltacht!

No connexion (as far as I know) between these two businesses at all.

Le meas,
Cionaodh

Caitriona--It takes a lot more to scare me away than harsh criticism, so don't worry about it...I was just pondering...GRMG for welcoming me!

Oops. Big mistake. Thanks Cionaodh. Yes, substitute Eurotalk for Gaeltalk in my post above.

I can't believe i just read all that crap about "if your learning a language it has to be a certain dialect" thats the biggest load of rubbish i've ever heard. When people are learning english, do they learn the irish dialect or the english dialect. NO they learn whatever way they f***in want to it doesnt make a difference because if you move to a certain area after learning english, that dialect will rub off on you..

There are some big big wingers in here that apparently have little else to do then to find problems with other peoples posts. I dont know any names because i didnt read them and i will not read them posts again for fear of bursting into flames with anger. To learn a language, its best to learn the standard and then you can develop your dialect yourself.... Your taught the irish of your teacher, thats just the way it is, and that includes standard irish. Same way if an american wants to learn irish. they learn american dialect irish, just out of curiosity, can any of you language 'purists' out there do a perfect english/american/australia/south african accent. This will be interesting!

(If only i had good enough english to actually put up a decent reply you's would know what im talking about)...

YOU DONT INTENTIONALLY LEARN A DIALECT... AAHHH IM STILL ANGRY!! :)

quote: "All native speakers of Irish have a "strong regional accent"; none of them speaks standard Irish. Your product will be fit for the wastebin."

MY GOD MY GOD WHY DID I READ IT AGAIN???

They dont speak standard irish because they are NATIVE!! irish speakers. anyone learning are not going to be NATIVE, but are aiming to be proficient or fluent in some cases!!!

thats the last time im reading it.

What are you angry about NiallMac?

Read the whole thing( i know its long) and you should understand. or maybe you wont and its just me. Me being angry was more sarchasm than anything else. But im ok now.

A NiallMac --

While I understand being annoyed by opinions with which you disagree, you might do well to think twice or thrice before hitting "submit". Instead of making a cogent defence of the worthiness of the Caighdeán Oifigiúil (which seemed to be where your symnpathies lay), you whinged in all-caps using quasi-naughty language for the span of several messages but imparted nothing of substance.

If you really feel that the CO is a good teaching medium (and many feel this way), then I for one would like to read your opinions.

The pointless rants, however, are unhelpful.

Can I say this NiallMac?

I do see your point. When you learn English, you just learn English, you don't go out of your way to learn a dialect. Many foreigners actually have a mix of English, American and Australian teachers at various points in their learning of English, and it doesn't impact negatively on their language learning.

That's because there is such a thing as standard English, with trivial points of difference between the US, the UK and other English-speaking countries.

There isn't really any such thing as a standard Irish. The Irish elite, who might have been expected to have created a formal standard, recognised as such just as the Queen's English is recognised in England, have moved over to English and don't speak Irish any more, with some exceptions.

So unlike in other languages, where most people speak and write fairly close to the idealised standard, no native speakers of Irish speak any other type of Irish than their local dialect. A "standard" has been created, but by a government committee. It is not accepted in the same way that standard French, English, German, Spanish or Italian are in their respective countries. Aonghus argues in another thread, that this so-called standard was only created for the government's internal use, because the lack of any agreed standard made it difficult for government organs to write in Irish.

People *do* speak standard English, but standard Irish simply does not exist in the same way.

But you are essentially right: if there were a proper accepted standard, it would make sense to learn that and not a non-standard dialect. But unfortunately, you do not have that choice.

a Charhu, maith thú!

What NiallMac has written clearly indicates that he doesn't know anything about state of Irish language in Ireland. So his comments are incompetent, ignorant and there is no point in discussing them. My small piece of advice to him - Before you start ranting about something please make sure you know anything on this topic, otherwise you just ridicule yourself. You may start with wikipedia for want of anything better. At least you wouldn't look like a fool.

Thanks for your attention

It's the 'no strong regional accent' line that bothered me on this issue. Who decides? What's strong? Why was there a need to put this in? It reminds me of the debate about Accent Reduction classes here in the States for ESL students. For me when students want to reduce an accent that hinders communication, that's fine. If the way words are stressed prevent communication and understanding, then that needs to be fixed. But I do not want to tell anyone that they should lose their accent to assimilate into a culture if that accent is no barrier to being understood.

I don't accept what was posted on another thread that 'there's no Dublin Irish.' I think the students of gaelscoileanna in Dublin, their teachers and people who grew up in Dublin, learned Irish there and are able to debate and talk and joke in Irish with fluency and without hesitation would be saddened and maybe offended to hear that.

Thank God, there is a revival and the gaelscoileanna are so popular. If people speak Irish with an accent from outside the Gaeltacht, it does not bother me. It's real and it's alive. People attached to the gaelscoileanna in my hometown of Mullingar are speaking Irish and I'm thrilled.

I know purists don't like the way the language changes. I adore listening to people from Gaeltacht areas for the music of the language but at the same time I'm delighted that Irish is coming back to regions of the country where it was lost for so long. I welcome this miracle.

A Chatriona,

Cá bhfuil "Mullingar"? Cén chontae?

????

When I learn a foreign language, I try to get the best accent I can. I makes no sense at all to me to not try to copy a native accent. People paying for Accent Reduction classes are really serious about learning a foreign language - good luck to them, they deserve to make progress because they are committed to it.

I would like to speak Irish and sound like a native speaker of Irish, with broad and slender consonants and tense and lax Ls and Ns in all the right places. I am not going to join any "proud to speak poor Irish" society.

A Charhu - study Munster dialect and you can skip this obnoxious (tongue-in-cheek) "tense and lax Ls and Ns" piece while sounding perfectly native. This is one thing I like very much about Munster dialect - one difficulty for foreigners less :))

Róman - I finally realised it is Róman and not Román - there have been some confusing threads on Daltaí about the tense and lax Ls and Ns in Munster. From my recollection I cannot remember if all the ls and ns in Munster are tense, or if they are all lax. But: you have to admit that Old Irish had 4 ls, 4 ns and 4 rs, as well as 2 ng's (ng = ŋ) and 4 ms - according to David Stifter's book Sengoídelc!!!

I love my hometown.
Westmeath, Co na hIarmhí is the freagra to your ceist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullingar

Gaelscoil An Mhuilinn is our first gaelscoil.
I have many places I love in Mullingar in the middle of the country. Is brea liom na lochanna: Loch Ennell when the bluebells are in bloom, the great scenery of Loch Derravaragh, climbing Captain’s Hill or taking a boat out to Church Island at Loch Owel. But the most moving place, I think, is the hill of Uisneach, http://www.megalithomania.com/show/site/80 9 miles outside Mullingar.
If you visit Mullingar you should go to Butler’s bridge where you often see lots of swans. Belvedere House and the area around it is beautiful too. I take walks along the canal banks when I go home and some lead to old famine graves, ancient wells and fairy forts. I’m a nature lover. Talking about Mullingar táim ag fáil uaigneach. Beidh mé ann arís i mbliana le cúnamh Dé.
Thanks for the question, Róman.

An Muileann gCearr.

Tá scéal éigin ann faoi muilleoir a chuir olc ar sean naomh éigin, agus gur thosnaigh an roth sa mhuileann ag casdah sa treo eile.

Tá. Agus tá an brí 'strange' ag an bhfocal 'cearr' freisin ach ceapaim féin nach bhfuil aon rud cearr leis An Muileann gCearr.

Níl gan amhras...

Ach b'fhéidir go raibh nuair a bhí mé ann:)

A Chaitriona a chara,

I've been quite busy of late and I haven't gotten a chance to translate your message to me that you wrote a few days ago. Ta bron orm. I'll try to get to it later but I can't guarantee it.

Beir bua agus beannacht

? Oh, now I remember. I was really tired and about to hit the bed when I came in from the pool so I just wished you 'Good night' and "Sleep well" and said how I'd been looking at the stars and trying to think positive or words to that effect, I think.

ehem! Roman, I do understand the state of irish in my country? could you elaborate on what that means for me please. Are u saying I don't speak irish/ i dont know how many people speak irish/ i dont understand every dialect...

I have learned several languages, some with more difficulty that others, but I have spoken irish in my house and with my friends in *Dublin*, since i was very young and i have always spoken standard irish. Are u to say my dialect is void because its standard.. and it is not true irish. Just because you are born speaking irish does not make you a master of the tongue.... (and i sincerely think that you didnt grow up speaking gaeilge i Ghaeltacht Liotuáin now did you? :)

Im a bit disorientated as you have really insulted me and am not sure what exactly you are talking about, please elaborate!

reading an article in Wikipedia/ newspaper/ website.. this means nothing. If you think you understand the state of irish in ireland because of this... ha.. ahaha.. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaa.. sorry excuse me.

If you read what was above my first post, you will see that the whole thing is rant rant rant rant ( with the exception of a few posts).... So my 3 posts or whatever are more ironic or whatever the correct word is, any english Gaelgoirí in here please put your answer on the back of a postcard.

I think that there are very very few people in ireland that can say they are a master of irish, and mean it.

What is your first hand experience on irish in ireland that gives you the right to insult me anyway?? heh?

Take a leaf out of a seanfhocals book ( as you can see ive learned munster english, so dont count on anything spectacular) :) ...

Is beatha teanga í a labhairt..

Thats all thats needed. If close minded so called Irish purists keep up this sharade about speaking perfect Irish than the language will never be revived and there will only be a small band of individuals to blame on it.

Im no Irish purists but I can go to spain every summer, speak irish and no one knows what the hell im talkin about so im proud of that. Roman does your irish allow that since you have this knowledge of the state of irish in ireland? tá tá níl.. CINNTE!! (amadán)

A Chionadh,

That was my attempt of a rant and i do believe the CO as you call it is the best way to learn irish. It was taught in my school in Dublin and i have learned irish pretty well and i have camped hostelled and roughed it throughout the Gaeltachts of ireland and have had no problems with the locals they never NEVER accused me of having any bad form of the language. Of course i have picked up some slang along the way which only adds to my vocabulary as a 20 year old who still has alot of irish to learn.

Its easy for people on the outside looking in to criticise Caighdean Oifigiuil but i know that for dubliners, it is a good way to learn. Nearly my whole class were competent in irish leaving primary school (thats 11 years old).. Thats an acheivement for any primary school in ireland.

NiallMac, Róman is one of the most scholarly people on this list, he has developed a strong interest in Munster Irish and knows a lot of details about the dialect there, and so I think you should not disrespect him because he is Lithuanian! In fact this board benefits from a number of dialectal specialists who are all foreigners! There is also a Jonas Holmqvist, a Finn who has not posted for a while, but is also an authority on Munster Irish, Lughaigh, a Breton who is an authority on Ulster Irish, and Peter, a Russian who is an authority on Connaught Irish. Very interesting isn't it, how these people from these countries take such interest?

The point is that the Irish you have learned is a mish-mash created by the government. It is not actually a real standard Irish in the way that standard English is standard. Do you use the dative case? If not, can you explain why you think you speak good Irish? And no, before you reach for your battery of cheap points, I do not speak very much Irish, but I know enough to know that Irish without the dative case is a bowdlerisation of the language.

It is great to see people having an interest in irish but i also dont like to be insulted or disrespected, and you/he/them must understand that also.

If that comment came across racist or anything like that i take it back and apologise because that was not my intention.

Karhu, i did not say i had good irish. If you are inquiring about the state of my irish, then i would say its ok, but maybe im critical of myself and im actually great or maybe im ego's out the window and im rubbish. Either way i communicate daily with my peers and friends/family which come from different parts of the country (falls road irish and donegal irish) and for them to compliment my irish is a compliment for me because I know they are fluent (and native in some of the kids cases).

If you would like to have a look at our own artificially created gaeltacht you could google, Gaeltacht Fionnghlas ( yes there is a gaeltacht in finglas). Maybe we don't speak the proper dialect BUT we are trying to revive the language by any means at this stage, and it is working. I have recently left the area so am not involved anymore.

im not a scholar, dont have a degree/phD/Masters in irish, but i have given alot to my community regarding irish and dont like when people insult my intelligence or my loyalty to irish.

I have never received any formal grammar teaching in irish ( thanks to the Irish Education System) so i cannot tell you what the dative case is. All my teaching was from speaking irish.. some may find this funny but i dont know what the dative case is so if you give me an example i will tell you if i use it or not?



Karhu, i would not resort to insults unless someone insulted me first.

apologies, there are no links to Gaeltacht Fionnghlas on google.

Niall, a chroí, tóg bog é.

Is fíor go bhfuilid ann i measc lucht leann nach ngeilleann gur féidir linne a tógadh nó a d'fhoghlaim Gaeilge sa Ghalltacht fíor Ghaeilge a bheith againn.

Ní fiú bheith maslaithe faoi. Tá bunús airithe ó thaobh teangeolaíochta leis an tuairim sin.

Karhu, a chara, is annamh an tuiseal tabharthach ag muintir na Gaeltachta ar na saolta seo ach oiread.


Beagán níos mó measa ar thuairimí ionraice a chéile, le bhur dtoil, agus níos lú maslaí. Ní bhaineann an tír as a dtagann duine le habhár, má tá firicí a lua aige mar bunús dá argoint.

Well, Aonghus, I don't know how rare it is in the Gaeltacht, only that the dative is not used in Connemara. I thought it did survive in Munster at any rate. My comment was not really related to any concept of viewinig the Gaeltacht as the ultimate "authority" so that the frequency of use in the GT decided the question. My comment really related to seeing the dative case as traditionally part of the Irish language, that the pre-war standard Irish definitely included. Based on historical and linguistic principles, it is in there, regardless of what people in the GT do or say.

I'm sorry, Karhu, I don't understand your point.

I was responding to your comment to Niall:

quote:

Do you use the dative case? If not, can you explain why you think you speak good Irish?

You seemed to be making the dative a shibboleth for good Irish.

Aonghus, I am basing it on pre-war copies of the Christian Brothers' Grammar as the yardstick for good Irish.