A penpal of mine that is 14 and in Ireland said he thought it was "Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?" But I heard that was "How are you?" So How would ask someone "What religion are you?" Is it anywhere close to "Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?"

Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú? means "how are you." If your penpal studies Irish in school, that rather depresses me. I have no idea how to ask what one's religion is … maybe cad is creideamh duit or something. =P

Cén ċaoi a ḃfuil tú?
Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?
is used in the sense of "How are you?".
But literally it means: "Which way/manner are you?" And someone’s religion is his "way of belief".
So, it isn't as dumb as it seems.

But to use caoi chreidimh (way of belief) instead of simple caoi (way) sounds odd:
Cén ċaoi ċɼeidiṁ atá agat?
Cén chaoi chreidimh atá agat?

I’d say:
Cén cɼeideaṁ atá agat?
Cén creideamh atá agat?
(lit.: Which faith do you have?)

Lars

So basically it is almost a double meaning phrase?

What about "Go hifreann leat" if you said that would you have some people mistaking what you meant in that case? Or is that a clear meaning phrase?

Very clear. It means "go to hell"

---

I'd agree with Lars on the question of religion.

Personally I would not be inclined to ask anyone what their religion is. It should be a private matter unless someone cares to divulge it.

That said, I have fairly often come across the unspoken assumption that Irish = Roman Catholic = Irish. What this means is that if you are Irish it is assumed that you are also RC, and that Roman Catholics are also (by some divine dispensation?) somehow Irish. It's an undercurrent that is seldom (if ever) enunciated, however it is clear enough. For those Irish, who may not be RC, the unspoken equation is quite irritating, because the other side of the coin is that if you are not RC, then you are not really Irish. The fact that a protestant, pagan or heathen might love and speak Irish can be a cause of great amazement to some. However, I believe that this outlook is fading, but it is still far from gone.

So, best to leave religion as a private matter.

Well, I have to disagree with the whole RC = Irish. Irish = RC, certaintally, but not so much RC = Irish. Something like only 5% or less or all Roman Cathoilics are Irish. But that's not what this board is about, just wanted to make a point.

"Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú? is used in the sense of "How are you?". But literally it means: "Which way/manner are you?"


Just out of curiosity..... Then what would be the Irish equvilant to "Which way are you?" When asking what gender they prefered?

Church of Ireland = Irish

I've heard that something like 2% of the population in the ROI is protestant. The same assumption gets made with Italians about being Catholic vs non-. If you're English or Scottish you're assumed not to be, because the numbers are pretty much reversed.

When people make an assumption like that, I think they're just going with the statistical trend in places where there is an overwhelming majority of one thing (not just religion - if I'm telling you about my Lithuanian friend, are you surprised to find out he's black? Or that my classmate from Nigeria is white?).

Why doesn't NI get lumped in with that to alter the numbers a bit? Well, I think it's the effects of the long-standing attitude of those from there (at least those who came to the US, but I'd imagine a large number who stayed as well) who wanted to disassociate themselves from the rest ("I'm Scots-Irish" etc). Unfortunately for their descendants, the disassociation worked and in many people's minds that demographic is viewed as separate from those who identify themselves most publicly as simply "Irish". I don't think there's any insult intended.

One last, non-religious example to which I'm sure we can all relate. I had to fix one of my boss' mistakes at work the other day, and so I'm complaining to him in Irish (jokingly) while I'm doing it. "What language is that?" "Irish" "Irish? Isn't that just english?" I had to show him my dictionary before he'd believe me. Why? Statistically, I'm in the minority and so to expect people to not make assumptions about a small population (Irish speakers) drowned in a vast population (english-speaking Irish) is unreasonable. I understand that I simply have to deal with it, and use situations like that as "teaching moments"

Er... maybe the majority of Americans have not heard of the Irish language, but I think you will find that Europeans are just a tad more aware of other countries. Real quote from an American: "Kosovo? Is that in Northern Ireland?"

What do you expect? For over a century those Irish who came here did so either without Irish, or with a hell-for-leather desire to lose what Irish they had as quickly as possible and hide the fact that they spoke it at all. What are people 5000 miles away and no dealings with the gaeltacht supposed to think?

Kosovo is another story, however, and I hope you smacked some sense into them.

However, the following is cut and pasted out of an email from my penpal from Manchester, UK. She's been living here over two months. " San Francisco huh? I am sure I would Love it there too. That is the place with the Golden Gate Bridge right? sorry I dont know too much of the states but I am most definitely sure I would love to see San Francisco." That's rather like not knowing the Arc de Triomphe is in Paris or that the Hermitage is in St. Petersburg.

In Europe, you can travel from Portugal to Russia and pass through over half a dozen distinct and varied nations (many more, depending on the route you choose)...in the US you can travel that same distance and never leave the country...people know what surrounds them and what they deal with. It's not surprising that Europeans know things like "the Irish language exists" and most Americans do not.

(Message edited by antaine on July 10, 2006)

"An muslamach thú nó an baol dom"?

I really liked the way you tied your personal experiences of teaching people of Irish to the discussion about asumptions, a Antaine. I know what you mean about needing to teach people. I wish I were as sweet about it as you seem to be. I just get annoyed that they havn't heard about something so important, of course many people don't feel it is important so it could be argued that that is just my own opinion. Good for you though with your perservirance at informing.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Well, for the average American, it's not important. It has no impact on their daily lives or country's foreign policy whether Gaeilge is the sole language of Ireland or dies out completely.

But so many people think you're yanking their chain even when you tell them which is why I always have a dictionary in my pocket to put in their hands.

I use Irish so much at work (and I'm the only one there who speaks it) that two of my coworkers have asked me for tapes and learning materials (which, of course, I provided).

To my mind, it's understandable that American's might not have heard about it (most at least know that Ireland "used to" speak 'Gaelic', for the most part they're surprised to learn it didn't die out a thousand years ago). So I have to ask, is it more productive for me to be angry they don't know, or to educate them?

Since high school, I have given learning materials of various kinds by request to over a hundred (literally, I stopped counting at 100 three years ago...and that's in 9 years total) of my friends , coworkers at various jobs and family members. Nine friends I have even convinced to come to immersion weekends with me in the last six years, some multiple times!!!

Well done to you a Antaine, you're grand.

Beir bua

>>> ... is it more productive for me to be angry they don't know, or to educate them?
Since high school, I have given learning materials of various kinds by request to over a hundred (literally, I stopped counting at 100 three years ago...and that's in 9 years total) of my friends , coworkers at various jobs and family members. Nine friends I have even convinced to come to immersion weekends with me in the last six years, some multiple times!!!

--- An-obair. Agus molann an obair an fear.
Sin é an chaoi.

Were are your immersion camps?

Daltaí does weekend programs in esopus, ny in May and Nov, and Bucks County, PA in Feb and a full week in august in esopus. There's a single day program or two in there somewhere as well. it's all up on the calendar.

Daltaí's immersion weekends are held in February and May in Esopus. New York and a week-long program is held there in August. The Bucks County weekend in Jamison, PA is held in November.

how in the world did I mix the feb and nov weekends!?

...gabh mo leithscéal, is amadán mé...