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(Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 06:03 pm: |
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Dia Duit= Hello (God to you) or Conas atá tú= How are you Or is something else even more common? Perhaps: Dia duit, conas atá tú, is even more common than either? What is it? Does it depend on what part of Ireland you are in? |
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 348 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 06:29 pm: |
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And to make it even more confusing for you, :) Conas a ta tu is not the only way to say how are you. Cad e mar a ta tu and another or more. Don't remember the one said in Ulster. Keep in mind that I'm a really inexperienced learner who can't get fadas on her keyboard and probably didn't spell that correctly. Someone will fix it for you so it will be correct. Beir bua agus beannacht |
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James
Member Username: James
Post Number: 385 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 06:37 pm: |
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Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú? Would be common in Connacht. Cad é mar atá tú? Is typically Ulster. Conas atá tú? Is Munster, I think. Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.
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Odwyer
Member Username: Odwyer
Post Number: 96 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 07:14 pm: |
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What about conas tá tú? Why do you need an "a" right before the tá? |
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Aaron
Member Username: Aaron
Post Number: 79 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 07:25 pm: |
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I seem to recall seeing someone on this site saying that "haigh" (or something similar) was common for "hi / hello", as opposed to "Dia duit". Anyone else remember seeing that? |
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 349 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 08:03 pm: |
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I guess I got them mixed up, that is why it is so nice to be on a forum with so many knowledgable people. :-) Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Aindréas
Member Username: Aindréas
Post Number: 111 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 08:24 pm: |
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Are conas atá tú? (and all dialectal variants) actual greetings, or the follow up to a greeting? Would you see someone and start with cén chaoi a bhfuil tú, or exchange Dia (is Muire) dhuit first? Because I know in some languages that's unusual/not done, to start or greet with a how are you type phrase. I'm curious about Irish. Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.
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Lucy (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 08:46 pm: |
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You usually wouldn't start with "conas atá tú". You might say "haigh" or "Dia duit" to anyone you meet but it would be odd to ask a stranger how he was. |
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Jessy
Member Username: Jessy
Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 09:49 pm: |
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What if it was a friend you saw almost everyday? Or talk to on IM, very often. Then could you skip "dia duit" and ask how they were? |
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Óráid_thoirní
Member Username: Óráid_thoirní
Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 11:46 pm: |
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Maybe you could say on IM: "An bhfuil tú ann?" - "Are you there?" "An bhfuil aon duine ann" "Is anyone there?" "An bhfuil tú i d'aonar" - "Are you alone?" FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
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Wee_falorie_man
Member Username: Wee_falorie_man
Post Number: 51 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 12:38 am: |
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There is also, "Conas taoi?" and "Conas tá'n tú? and also "Conas atá an misneach?" |
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Niall Mac (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 04:51 am: |
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Funny thing about Tir Chonaill Gaeilge, they say cáide mar atá tú..... that was i Gaoth Dobhair so im not sure about the other places i Dhún na nGall |
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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 05:40 am: |
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... agus 'caidé mas tá tú?' i ndeisceart na contae sin. Bhíodh sé mar a chéile in íochtar Chonnacht tráth den saol. 'Tá mé go hiomchuí' nó 'go hiomchuí' a deirtí mar fhreagra. |
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Odwyer
Member Username: Odwyer
Post Number: 99 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 07:11 pm: |
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Why do you need an "a" right before the tá? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 3375 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 04:16 am: |
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Is foirm de bheith atá in "atá". bheith [ainm briathartha][briathar] LÁITH. COIBHNEASTA (Present relative? Ask a grammarian!) atáim atá tú atá sé atá sí atáimid atá sibh atá siad Sb. atáthar |
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Domhnall
Member Username: Domhnall
Post Number: 527 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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I use "Bhuel" to say hello to Gaeilgeoirí. Conas atá tú is quite the school Gaeilge and offical standard. You can pretty much say anything - there's even "Heileo" in the An dtuigeann tú textbook. Tis crazy! Dia is mhuire / phadraig / is na naofa go léir is being used less these days. Mór an trua é, it's such a beautiful way to greet someone - A "God be with you." - b "God and Mary be with you.." A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river
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Ceolmhar
Member Username: Ceolmhar
Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 01:02 pm: |
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Hóigh! Please correct me if you have the time }:-D
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Pangur_dubh
Member Username: Pangur_dubh
Post Number: 82 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 05:08 pm: |
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Hóigh? N'fheadar an é sin blas an Dart? :-) |
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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 01:19 am: |
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Does the somewhat stereotyped Hiberno-Irish "Top of the Morning" correspond to something originally in Irish? |
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suaimhneas (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 07:20 am: |
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I think "top o' the mornin'" comes from the Hollywood gaeltacht |
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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 08:00 am: |
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I feel that people who come from other languages to English seem to zero in on the adjective 'top' more than native English speakers, and that they do this regardless of any compunction from their own native languages. Seeing the 'Top Oil', the 'Top Cigarette' etc in other countries as they rush to advertise in English brought me to this opinion. Someone from the world of English may like to delve into the question. Móra duit ar maidin etc in Irish doesn't explain the Hollywood origin of 'the top of the mornin ta ya' and yet it was such a strong marker for the celluloid Irishperson. |
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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 08:07 am: |
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There is a Chinese company called Top Glory International. |
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suaimhneas (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 10:27 am: |
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I'm just wondering does the "top" in "top of the morning" come from a mistranslation of "uachtar" meaning cream, and that it should have been "the cream (or best) of the morning to you" |
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John (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 08:29 am: |
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I have heard many histories of the phrase "top of the morn'n to ya..." Most lead me to believe that it was a creation of the Hollywood scene here in the United States. However, having said that, the funny thing is that they got it more right than they thought they did. From what I have seen and read, this is the more accurate story of the phase: When most people in the United States think of the Irish accent...that Lucky Charms character comes to mind. That accent, which I have never actually heard that thick in Ireland, is an overdone version of some of the accents heard in the southern counties. In the early movie era, the sterotyped Irish person was also given this overdone accent to show that the usually American actor, was really an Irish person... But anyone who has done a little acting knows that speaking in an accent is not very easy for long durations because we naturally revert to how we normally speak...so to keep the accent going we have to also master "phrasing." And it just so happens, that Irish has a characteristic that is rather unique...it likes to put the preposistions at the end of the phrase such as "to you, from me, about him, and ect..." "Top of the morning," is definitely an American mindset thing...the "top of" part is actually an early colonial reference to the start of something. For instance, top of the 7th means the start of the 7th inning, or we start work at the top of the hour. (The phrase originates from the position of the minute hand of a clock.) I do know know the exact moment, (date, movie, actor)...but I read somewhere that the phrase "top of the morning to you" was used as a greeting in a movie when an Irish man greeted his Yankee friend in a civil war film. There are some that will argue that the phrase is of Irish origins because it can be easily translated into Irish...however, as I said before, I think it is just one of those things that just sort of worked out. On a whole it is a unique and interesting way to greet someone and whether or not it is of American or Irish origin, it will always be considered Irish. |
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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 09:02 am: |
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>> .. because it can be easily translated into Irish... -- It can't John. That's the point stated above. >> .. it will always be considered Irish. By the uninformed, and provide a laugh for the rest of us. The most stereotyped example had to be Donald Sutherland sprawled in an armchair, a large whiskey glass in hand, greeting a Nazi officer who entered in the usual celluloidese. |
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 384 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 06:59 pm: |
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John, For what its worth I thought that composition of yours had some interesting points. Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Mac Léinn na Gaeilge (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 08:02 pm: |
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What little research I've done shows the phrase "top of the morning" being in existence as early as the 1800's. Here's a quote from the the Irish poet John Locke (1847-1889) Th' an'am an Dhia, but there it is-- The dawn on the hills of Ireland. God's angels lifting the night's black veil From the fair sweet face of my sireland! O Ireland, isn't it grand, you look Like a bride in her rich adornin', And with all the pent up love of my heart I bid you the top of the morning. - The Exile's Return I wonder if John Locke was a consultant or worked for Hollyword? Regarding the beginning, Irish phrase "Th' an'am an Dhia," my best attempt at understanding it is "something [my?] soul of God. I would greatly appreciate an interpretation. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 3406 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 04:12 am: |
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T'anam -> D'anam -> your soul. The phrase I know is T'anam ón diabhail (may your soul be preserved from the devil) |
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Mac Léinn na Gaeilge (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 10:52 am: |
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Go raibh maith agat a Aonghuis. Since Locke's phrase includes "an Dhia," it seems to imply something to do with God. I wonder if it's an exclamation such as "Soul of God" or something like that. This poem of Locke's to me is such a thing of beauty, not only because of the choice of words but the rhythm and rhyme to it! I wonder if the phrase "top of the morning" goes back any earlier than the 1800's in Ireland and if it originally were in Irish. |
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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 10:55 am: |
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Is spéisúil an tagairt sin don Exile's Return: >>> Th' an'am an Dhia, but there it is-- The dawn on the hills of Ireland. God's angels lifting the night's black veil From the fair sweet face of my sireland! O Ireland, isn't it grand, you look Like a bride in her rich adornin', And with all the pent up love of my heart I bid you the top of the morning. - The Exile's Return Is dán é a chuaigh i gcionn ar an bPiarsach dar liom. Chuala an Piarsach in áit éigin é measaim. Toradh an Phiarsaigh, dar liom: Móra duit, a thír ár ndúchais! Móra duit, a thír ár ndúchais! Dia dod' sheoladh slán! Mochean dod' bheannaibh borba! Mochean dod' leathanlocaibh! Mochean dod' aibhnibh is dod' easaibh! Is móra duit, a thír ár ndúchais! Go mairirse go bráth! Móra duit, a áitreabh éigse! Dia dod' a sheoladh slán! Aoibhinn ceol do chláirseach, Aoibhinn glór do shámhchrot, Aoibhinn do scéalta is do dhréachta Á síorghabháil ag baird! Is móra duit, a áitreabh éigse! Go mairirse go bráth! Móra duit, a bhuime laochraí Dia dod' sheoladh slán! Ag cosaint chlú is oinigh Ag cosaint chrú do chlainne, Ag cosaint Chirt ar éigean Nirt, Níor stríocais fós do námhaid! Is móra duit, A bhuime laochraí! Go mairirse go bráth! Móra duit, a thír ár ndúchais! Dia dod' sheoladh slán! An fhaid 's is buan do bheanna An fhaid 's a ghluaiseas d'aibhne, An fhaid is a mhairfeas féar is fearann, Ní stadfam ó do ghrá! Is móra duit, a thír ár ndúchais! Go mairirse go bráth! Móra duit, a thír ár ndúchais! Dia dod' sheoladh slán! Mochean dod' bheannaibh borba! Mochean dod' leathanlocaibh! Mochean dod' aibhnibh is dod' easaibh! Is móra duit, a thír ár ndúchais! Go mairirse go bráth! Móra duit, a áitreabh éigse! Dia dod' a sheoladh slán! Aoibhinn ceol do chláirseach, Aoibhinn glór do shámhchrot, Aoibhinn do scéalta is do dhréachta Á síorghabháil ag baird! Is móra duit, a áitreabh éigse! Go mairirse go bráth! Móra duit, a bhuime laochraí Dia dod' sheoladh slán! Ag cosaint chlú is oinigh Ag cosaint chrú do chlainne, Ag cosaint Chirt ar éigean Nirt, Níor stríocais fós do námhaid! Is móra duit, A bhuime laochraí! Go mairirse go bráth! Móra duit, a thír ár ndúchais! Dia dod' sheoladh slán! An fhaid 's is buan do bheanna An fhaid 's a ghluaiseas d'aibhne, An fhaid is a mhairfeas féar is fearann, Ní stadfam ó do ghrá! Is móra duit, a thír ár ndúchais! Go mairirse go bráth! http://groups.msn.com/IrelandOurs/pearsepoetry.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&I D_Message=53101&LastModified=4675508627402456443 Buaileadh cló ar an amhrán Meiriceánach in aonleabhar is dóigh liom, le haistriúchán Béarla Thomáis Mhic Donncha ar an mBonnán Buí. |
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John (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 01:03 pm: |
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I am aware of Lockes poem, but outside of it...I do not know of any other reference to this phrase, outside of the American usage where it has now become a stereotype for the Irish. Lockes poem may very well have been the inspiration for the phrase, and then again maybe something inspired Locke??? For all we know, this phrase may have come from something comepletely different, for instance...I knew a teacher in Boston who greeted his students with something that sounded like "a wooic na majina..." Now I won't lie, it was a long time ago, but I do remember him saying something along the lines of it meaning the "best part of the morning." I am going to assume he was saying "An bhuaic na maidine?" (the height or climax of the morning) I need the help of the more fluent speakers here because I am going off the figurative meaning given by a dictionary. Maybe there is something to this line of thinking, that the "top of" the morning, is another way of saying something else such as the height of the morning...or...the crest of the morning...or...the climax of the morning??? What do the people here think??? |
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Mac Léinn na Gaeilge (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 02:59 pm: |
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Maybe some of us need to re-think the notion that "top of the morning" is an American stereotype since we have a famous Irish poet using the phrase well before the advent of Hollywood. I think we can safely say the phrase is Irish in nature and origin. quote:Lockes poem may very well have been the inspiration for the phrase, and then again maybe something inspired Locke??? If we start following this line of reasoning, then I betcha hundreds of words can be disqualified as Irish since they have their origins in other languages, even though they've been in use in Ireland for hundreds of years. |
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John (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 09:52 am: |
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Mac Léinn, Interesting point of view...however, wouldn't your line of reasoning disqualify many words as Irish? Are you not suggesting that this phrase is of Irish origin because of its use by someone else earlier? If so, then many Irish words would be disqualified as Irish because we can prove Irish words having foreign origins in many languages...does this really make them not Irish? I think a good example of this was in another thread where someone pointed out that the Irish word for life "saol" comes from the Old Irish "saegul"...which was was taken from the Latin word "saeculum." By your reasoning, wouldn't "saol" not be an Irish word because it is really a Latin word that was in use long before it came to Ireland? Now don't get me wrong, I agree that the earliest recorded reference was used by an Irish person...I just don't think that makes it exclusively Irish because how many people in Ireland use it? Now come to the United States and ask someone to greet you like an Irish person and see which phrase makes the "top" of the list. (pun intended) |
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Mícheál
Member Username: Mícheál
Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 02:11 pm: |
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Greenspeak: Ireland in Her Own Words by Paddy Sammon and published in 2002 has this entry for Top of the Morning: top of the morning (humorous) stage-Irish greeting. The origin of the term is obscure - perhaps influenced by mora/móra na maidine duit 'good morning'. Radio Éireann announcers used to open the station with the words "Móra dhaoibh ar maidin". Mór is explained - inimitably - in Dinneeen's Dictionary as "a name for the sun, a woman's name, type of the average woman especially the peasant woman in proverbs; often Englished Martha, Mary or Agnes; Mór Bhuí Britannia; Mór Mumban, the beautiful wife of Cathal mac Fionghaine; Mór Cluana, a famous fairy or goddess; Mór, Leor is Lorgan, the title of a Meath cat-decapitation folk-story about three sisters, of whom the last was the heroine; tá Mór ina suí the sun is up". (I've left out the bolded and italicized words.) Maidhc |
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Mícheál
Member Username: Mícheál
Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 02:22 pm: |
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Greenspeak: Ireland in Her Own Words by Paddy Sammon and published in 2002 has this entry for Top of the Morning: top of the morning (humorous) stage-Irish greeting. The origin of the term is obscure - perhaps influenced by mora/móra na maidine duit 'good morning'. Radio Éireann announcers used to open the station with the words "Móra dhaoibh ar maidin". Mór is explained - inimitably - in Dinneeen's Dictionary as "a name for the sun, a woman's name, type of the average woman especially the peasant woman in proverbs; often Englished Martha, Mary or Agnes; Mór Bhuí Britannia; Mór Mumban, the beautiful wife of Cathal mac Fionghaine; i{Mór Cluana}, a famous fairy or goddess; Mór,Leor is Lorgan, the title of a Meath cat-decapitation folk-story about three sisters, of whom the last was the heroine; tá Mór ina suí the sun is up". (Bold and italics more easily done than I had thought.) Maidhc |
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Mac Léinn (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
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John, Your arguing my point exactly. That is, we can't disqualify a word simply as Irish simply because it comes from another language. That, I speculate, may be happening here with "Top of the morning." We see that it goes back to John Locke's time. So, that, I speculate, rules out an Tinsel-town (Hollyword) origin. Now I know that John Locke wrote it in English in his poem, but again just pure speculation, was he using this phrase 1)as the first time in history, 2)was he using it because he learned it in Irish, or 3)It was an English saying. I don't know the answer. But I definitely don't buy into any Greenspeak notion that "top of the morning" is a humorous Irish-stage greeting. I find John Locke's poem, "Exile's Return" very beautiful, I wouldn't describe it a Irish-stage humor. I would hope to be the last to dispute what the inimitable Dineen had to say, but I don't see how Paddy Sammon could make the mental leap from "women of the morning" to "top of the morning." I think that they are two different phrases. |
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Mícheál
Member Username: Mícheál
Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 04:14 pm: |
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I've been looking at various sources for more information. Here are some items: (1) This exact sentence is repeated at too-numerous-to-mention Web sites in cyberspace: The correct response to the Irish greeting, "Top of the morning to you," is "and the rest of the day to yourself." (2) Reference > Usage > The Columbia Guide to Standard American English Kenneth G. Wilson (1923–). The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993. top 1 (n.) in the plural is slang, meaning “the very best,” “top of the heap,” as in You’re tops with me. The singular noun also occurs in several idiomatic locutions: Take it from the top is a jargon expression from rehearsing music and other performances, meaning “Start from the beginning”; it may be becoming more generally Conversational. To blow your top is slang for “to lose your temper” or “to go mad.” To talk off the top of your head is “to speak without thinking or planning your remarks”; it’s Conversational and Informal. Off the top is a jargon expression from haircutting, in which the barber is told to take a little off the top, meaning “to shorten the hair on top of the head,” transferred to finances, where to take your money off the top is also jargon, meaning “to take it before taxes or other expenses have been subtracted.” On top of is Standard in the sense “on or at the top of,” but in the sense “in control,” as in I’m on top of the situation now, it’s Conversational and Informal. The top of the hour and the bottom of the hour are broadcasting and possibly advertising jargon for the beginning and end of an hour or half hour of broadcasting time; they also mean “on the hour” and “on or at the half hour.” Top of the morning (to you) is a somewhat dated greeting, Casual or Impromptu slang meaning “Wishing you the best or the choicest part of the morning.” 1 The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. Copyright © 1993 Columbia University Press. (3) Totally different meaning, but thought it was funny to come across Hamlet III. Scene II. where Hamlet refers to "top of one's bent" and that 19th century British slang used "morning" as a reference to a part of the male anatomy. (4) Top of the Morning was often said in American Vaudeville (which morphed into Hollywood) by comedians pretending to be Irish so it must have been in use before then. Comedians of that era often exaggerated or copied what they heard around them. Anyone have a complete Oxford English Dictionary handy? Top of the evening to you. Mike |
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Mac Léinn na .... (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 04:30 pm: |
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A Mhíchíl, You're tops! I much enjoyed reading your post above and admire the effort you put into researching. I have a copy of the complete Oxford English Dictionary on CD, but I'll have to ask m'athair how to re-load it on the computer. Once done, I'll start looking for the phrase in the dictionary. Well, that should top it off for now. |
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Mícheál
Member Username: Mícheál
Post Number: 88 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 04:37 pm: |
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Just checked my copy of Slanguage - dictionary of Slang and Colloquial English in Ireland (1997) by Bernard Share. (Cover has title: Slanguage - a dictionary of IRISH slang.) top of the morning [salutation]. Greeting, latterly Paddyism. 1879 Charles J. Kickham, Knocknagour. '"The top of the morning to you, Miss Grace," suggested that Father Hannigan affected the phraseology of the peasantry.' These word meaning pursuits may seem "over the top," but I find them great craic. Maidhc |
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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 04:46 pm: |
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I like that word "Paddyism". So if Top of the morning is "móra duit ar maidin", what is "and the rest of the day to yourself in Irish? |
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Enfield
Member Username: Enfield
Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2005
| Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 02:31 am: |
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Conas a ta tu mo sean blath, 'how are you me old flower' Tom. |
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