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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (July-August) » Archive through July 26, 2006 » Scottish and Irish Gaelic « Previous Next »

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Odwyer
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Username: Odwyer

Post Number: 93
Registered: 05-2006


Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 06:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I am going to Scotland this summer, and I was wondering, exactly how different are Scottish and Irish Gaelic? Any input would be greatly apprecciated!

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Julia
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Username: Julia

Post Number: 37
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 09:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi ODwyer!

As a disclaimer, I am *not* a linguistic expert. But from what I've seen personally, the languages do have many similarities.

I've been reading a novel in which a few of the main characters occassionally speak Scottish Gaelic/Gaeilge na hAlban. And while the Scottish spelling seems older to me than modern Irish spelling, I've been able to understand the majority of it (which I didn't expect to happen).

I think it helps if you think of it as sounding like Ulster Irish. The Scottish Gaelic for "how are you" is "Ciamar a tha thu" (not sure if I'm missing fadas). As was mentioned in another Daltaí thread, when pronounced, this is unlike "Conas atá tú" but pretty similar to the Ulster variant "Cad é mar atá tú".

In her radio series on "Hidden Ulster", Pádraigín Ní Uallacháin said that there were traditions of people from Ulster and Scotland who had no problem communicating using their respective languages. (I know that when I was in Scotland, I could read a good few signs written in Scottish Gaelic, despite having veeeeeery little Irish at the time.)

Where are you going in Scotland? I think you'll have a fantastic time!

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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James
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Username: James

Post Number: 383
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 11:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Irish has no indefinite article. Scots gaelic (Gaedhlig) does. You would probably find greater similarity in the reading of it than the speaking.

What you are more likely to hear is Doric which is more a heavily colloquialised dialect of english than it is an actual language.

(Message edited by james on June 30, 2006)

Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 784
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 11:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

i can make heads and tails out of written scottish and manx, and, once i knew to adjust for the k-p shift, bits of welsh and cornish too.

can't say i've heard anything but irish and scottish spoken, however...

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Aindréas
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Username: Aindréas

Post Number: 109
Registered: 09-2005


Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 03:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

That's interesting that Gàidhlig has an indefinite article. I wonder about the other Celtic languages. *runs to Wikipedia*

Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.

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Róman
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Username: Róman

Post Number: 370
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 03:54 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Gàidhlig has an indefinite article



Pile of rubbish. There is no indefinte article there.

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Pangur_dubh
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Username: Pangur_dubh

Post Number: 73
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 09:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sorry. I am going to ask you to come up with evidence for an indefinite article in Gàidhlig na hAlba. Thà mi gu dearbh chan eil.

When you get used to the idea that Gàidhlig's spelling is like that of Irish used to be before the great Simpliciation in the late 1940s, then it's not really so inaccessible. Then when you realise that 'an diugh' is closer in speech than it looks to 'inniu', matters get even clearer.

Then the simple sentence 'Thà an cat beag, ach thà an cù mòr' shows exactly how close the two languages are. Indeed, they shared a literary standard until the final collapse of the bardic system in the late 1600s/early 1700s. Subsequent history conspired to send them off on diverging paths. But for those of one language with a relatively slight acquaintance with the language of the other, a Scots Gael and and Irish person can understand each other in essentials without too much difficulty.

For me, one of the strangest things is that, like Welsh, there is no present tense of verbs. A present continuous, constructed of the verbal noun and the verb 'to be' is used.

For those who may not be familiar with Gàidhlig, the initial impact and the similarity to Gaeilge can be striking - familiarity, but still different... Perhaps a sample would illustrate this better:

Bha Seumas a' tuiteam 'na chadal nuair a ràinig iad an Tairbeart, ach bha e 'na làn dhùisg nuair a chunnaic e a sheanair's a sheanmhair a' feitheamh air a' cheidhe.

[Bhí Séamas ag titim ina chodladh nuair a tháinig siad go Tairbeart, ach bhí sé 'na lán dhúiseacht nuair a chonaic sé a sheanathair's a sheanmhathair ag feitheamh ar an cheidhe.]

In addition, Iomairt Cholcille may also be of interest to those who feel a calling to Gàidhlig.

http://www.colmcille.net/article.asp?id=137&lang=2§ion=1

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1356
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 07:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

That's interesting that Gàidhlig has an indefinite article. I wonder about the other Celtic languages. *runs to Wikipedia*

Yes, as the other people said, there isn't. There are indefinite articles in Breton (I know 'cause I speak it), and in some varieties of Cornish, I think, especially Late Cornish. Have to make sure for that, maybe there's someone else here who would know more than me about Cornish.

No indefinite articles in Welsh, Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx, and in the other varieties of Cornish.

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Mbm
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Username: Mbm

Post Number: 65
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 05:46 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My personal experience is that Scottish Gaelic confuses me. It sounds and looks similar enough to make you feel you should understand it, but it's also different enough so you understand almost nothing. I find that, with a lot of lateral thinking, I can sometimes read a passage in Scottish Gaelic, but it's slow-going and tiring.

Is mise,
Michal Boleslav Mechura

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James
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Username: James

Post Number: 384
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 12:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I stand corrected. I was merely repeating something I remember reading on this very site some 3 or more years ago.

My apologies for any misdirection, confusion etc.

(Message edited by james on July 03, 2006)

Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 02:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

When I first started learning Celtic languages, I started with Scottish. I lived in the United States, where I was able to attend classes held my Muriel Fisher and the Tucson Gaelic Institute...a native speaker from Skye, and the only certified native speaker teaching in the country.

Her courses start off with the history of Irish, and its evolution into Scottish, and she did a great job of pointing out the differences and the similarities of the two languages...

The first and biggest difference between the two is the spelling system. Someone above mentioned that Scottish looks like it uses the pre-standard spellings. This is partially true. Scottish uses a standardised spelling just like Irish does, however, Scottish had a little more positive history than Irish did in the English speaking world, and was therefore allowed to devolpe more naturally and with few drastic changes. Irish on the other hand made drastic spelling reforms in the early 1940's. Had they not made such drastic changes...I think Irish and Scottish might not be so different looking.

The second major difference a person must be aware of is that there are differences in vocabulary. The basic vocabulary is pretty similar to Irish...especially the Ulster dialects. You will start running into differences when you get into modern terms and verbs. Once again, this is because Scottish unlike Irish was given a little more room to develope. However, I have no problem going back and forth between the two. And Mrs. Fisher also commented that when she was growing up, people who could speak Scottish had little trouble adapting to Irish. Unfortunately...she would quickly add, that was not true for Irish speakers understanding Scottish. Whether this is true one can argue...because I speak more Irish than Scottish and I can follow along pretty well. Minus one or two questions.

And finally the grammar...this is where most people will seperate the two languages. You have to remember the evolution process of the two languages. Irish dealt with foreign influences that came to the island and developed accordingly...Scottish landed on the shores of a land where it was the stranger and developed accordingly. And you can see this in its grammar where it adapted by the introduction on certain grammar features of other languages.

I really enjoy Scottish, I think that Irish can learn a lot from it.

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Odwyer
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Username: Odwyer

Post Number: 95
Registered: 05-2006


Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 09:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thank you, that's very helpful to me!

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Norwegiandame
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Username: Norwegiandame

Post Number: 163
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 01:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ceisteanna!

Has the changes in Irish spelling distanced Irish further from Scottish?

Was Irish spoken differently(from today) before the alterations during the 40's?

Why did the alterations take place at all?

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Mickrua
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Username: Mickrua

Post Number: 54
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 01:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

PLEASE! PLEASE! Take great care when reading WIKIPEDIA.
It is a flawed forum/Reference source.It is full of errors and is widely discredited and is not "quoted" as a reference source by mainstream organisations or freelance journalists who have integrity and reliability to their names.
I did try it but within an hour I had spotted 2 to 3 errors and anyone can submit any old rubbish without scrutiny and I did find references t sources and the links were not " bona fides".
Mo bharúil féin, fan amach "ón Diabhal sin ar fad" !!!!

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Mbm
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Username: Mbm

Post Number: 68
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 01:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I wasn't alive then, but this what I think:

> Has the changes in Irish spelling distanced Irish
> further from Scottish?

Yes it must have: obviously in spelling at least, if not in pronunciation. People who learned their Irish with the new spelling will find Scottish spelling more difficult than those who learned their Irish with the old spelling.

> Was Irish spoken differently(from today) before the
> alterations during the 40's?

Probably not very much.

> Why did the alterations take place at all?

To bring the spelling closer to the pronunciation. Mainly, to do away with syllables which were no longer pronounced, for example the word "saol" (life) used to be written as "saoghal" (or somesuch) but the "gh" bit was no longer pronounced, so there was really no reason to spell it that way any more, and so they re-spelled it as "saol". It's still spelled as "saoghal" in Scottish, though.

Is mise,
Michal Boleslav Mechura

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1574
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 02:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

To bring the spelling closer to the pronunciation. Mainly, to do away with syllables which were no longer pronounced, for example the word "saol" (life) used to be written as "saoghal" (or somesuch) but the "gh" bit was no longer pronounced, so there was really no reason to spell it that way any more, and so they re-spelled it as "saol". It's still spelled as "saoghal" in Scottish, though.

An-sampla! Excellent example. The word was "sáegul" in Old Irish, a borrowing from Latin "saeculum". "Saoghal" is still the spelling in Scottish Gaelic not out of any love of archaic spelling on their part, but rather because it accurately represents their pronunciation. For them, the word still has two syllables /sY-ëL/ (Y = upside down y; a bit like ø in French "feu").

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 05:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's a juicy example: i gcómhnaidhe ---> i gcónaí (always)

Basically I like the ones where the previous form had several lenited letters in - they were the glory of the Irish language.

Here's another one: spéiseamhail ----> spéisiúil (interesting) [[and basically a whole class of adjectives now spelled -úil used to be spelled -mhail]]. So now this word just looks like, what it probably is, a borrowing from English.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

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Norwegiandame
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Username: Norwegiandame

Post Number: 164
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 05:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Mbm, thanks for a very informative reply! :-)

I see what you mean about the unnecessary consonant 'gh' in 'saoghal'. But still, there are many mute consonants in today's Irish. I come across such all the time in Conamara-Irish. The word 'mathair', the 'th' is mute and it's spelled almost like 'mair'. But in Munster-Irish, the 'th' is included as 'h'.

I like all the "unnecessary" consonants and where Conamara excludes them, I resort to Munster instead.

But why have so many consonants been excluded in Irish? English influence?

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Aaron
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Username: Aaron

Post Number: 78
Registered: 04-2005


Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 06:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:


But why have so many consonants been excluded in Irish? English influence?



Or, why are there so many silent consonants in English? Is it Irish influence?

freight

Is the spelling Irish influenced?

height
thought
drought
although

Although:

ghost

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1360
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 06:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I come across such all the time in Conamara-Irish. The word 'mathair', the 'th' is mute and it's spelled almost like 'mair'.

I think it's specific to Cois Fhairrge Irish, and not to whole Connemara.

But why have so many consonants been excluded in Irish? English influence?

No, that fact began even before most Irish people knew Irish. It's just a natural evolution of sounds. You could find the same kind of evolutions in most languages of the world (just compare Old Norse to Norwegian: many sounds have changed a lot or have disappeared as well).

The evolution /θ/ > /h/ exists in Southeastern Breton, in Belfast English ("nothing" is pronounced "nahen"), for example.

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Róman
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Username: Róman

Post Number: 374
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 03:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My 50 cents.

It is good somebody has brought up the word "SAOGHAL". This word is a good illustration that one size DOESN'T suit all.

In UIster this word is disyllablic, so "saol" IS NOT an accurate spelling [si:@l]

In Munster this word (as you might know) is pronounced with [e:], so "saol" is good for showing this pronounciation. Trouble starts in genetive, which was spelled "saoghail" and pronounced [se:l`]. And here comes the dreaded new spelling - the genetive is spelled "saoil" and has to be read from this apalling spelling as [si:l`] in Munster, which IS NOT a case.

The same goes for word "baoghal" (focal Gaelach seachas "dainséar").

The conclusion - "gh" is needed in this word, even if it looks unnecessary to someone in Cois Fhairrge. We, in Munster, spell "scríobhaim", although it is pronounced "scríom", for sake of those up north. So maybe those in the west shall respect the ones living BOTH south AND north?


Other good word is "i gcomhnaidhe". While not disputing that final "-aidhe" is simple "-aí" in all dialects the first syllable is of importance. This is nasal in Corcaigh dialects, go bhfios dom - in West Conamara, and I would hazard a guess that in Donegal too. In all folklore texts from Munster this word is even spelled "i gcônaí" with "ô" to show nasality.

So the most appropriate spelling is "i gcomhnaí" or even "agomhnaí". If urú was removed from words like "éadtrom", "éagcóir" for reasoning - those are "independent" words - then why "i gcomhnaí" has to be different?

Furthermore - words like "i ndiu", "i ndé", "i mbárach", "an uair" are run together to produce "inniu", "inné", "amárach", "nuair", then why not to spell "agomhnaí"? I don't think word "always" is any more tied in meaning to "living" concept than "day" to "today".

Resumé - caighdeán spelling is inconsistent and sometimes simply wrong.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1361
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 06:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Saol is pronounced [ˈsˠɨːəlˠ] or [ˈsˠiːəlˠ] in Donegal. In the genitive, however, it may have only one syllable: [sˠiːl] or [sˠɨːl].

There are other things that aren't consistent in the new spelling: in Donegal, teanga is said teangaidh [ˈtʲaŋˠi] (gen. teangtha [ˈtʲaŋ̊hə]), leaba is leabaidh [ˈλabʷi] (gen. leabtha = leapa [ˈλapʷə]), coill is coillidh [ˈkˠeλi] (gen. coilleadh [ˈkˠeλu]), etc.

Donegal Irish has not been taken into account in that case.

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Pangur_dubh
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Username: Pangur_dubh

Post Number: 75
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 09:21 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The spelling 'rationalisation' of the 1940s is being mirrored by some in America, who spell 'night' as 'nite'; 'though' as 'tho''; 'thru' for' 'through' etc. The problem with this sort of thing is that it tends to loses the history of the word in question and its links to the history of the language and related languages. Night, for example, is related to Nacht, Anocht, Nox and so forth. Although the gutteral sound of the 'gh' is no longer a feature of English, it remains in German doch/durch, also), Irish etc. So, a simplified spelling ('nite'), whilst it may seem initially desirable, is really a step away from where the language has come from.

Same goes for Irish simplified spelling. I remember books published in the old spelling and in the Cló Gaelach. It wasn't really all that formidable. I suspect, however, that the change was designed with the intention of making Irish more accessible to learners, to encourage them. If so, it has not helped on bit. Irish is every bit endangered as ever it was.

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Norwegiandame
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Username: Norwegiandame

Post Number: 167
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 10:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Rómán, you're scaring me. How can a student of Irish learn proper pronunciation if the standard is inconsistent?

Thank you for that thorough post. It shows you're quite a linguist! Maith thú!

I must say that I love the complex spelling more than the simplified one. It's strange that all languages today should get simpler. It happens everywhere. Hopefuly we won't lose our languages forever!!

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Róman
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Username: Róman

Post Number: 376
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 11:03 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A chairde,

Just to make things straight - I am not some kind of antiquarian who likes weird old spellings. Reform was overdue for some words - e.g. "coitchianta" has lost "ch" in speech in all dialects, so spelling "coitianta" is fine with me. Likewise no point to oppose "timcheall" spelled as "timpeall" because this is how it is pronounced.


BUT - I will fight teeth-and-nails spellings like "trá", "crua" and other idiocies of caighdeán. It was very difficult to learn to pronounce [in`uv] from "inniu" before I started actually writing "inniubh".

I have coinscripted one more Lithuanian to study Irish - he is in the lesson Nr 10 of Aydan's textbook. It is very refreshing for me, because I really see what is, and what is not difficult for a complete beginner.

So believe me or not - I could not explain to him why "teach" has to change to "tí", "tigh" and "tithe". After seeing a blank look I tried with "tighe", "tigh", "tighthe" - NO PROBLEM! The same for leanbh -> leanaí, but leanbh -> leanbhaí was fine.

And of course, léigh -> léann, or even better dóigh -> dónn were REALLY startling for him. But léigheann, dóigheann was OK. Would you guess why?

Of course it is rather difficult to understand why scríobh -> scríobhaim is OK, but dóigh -> dóighim is not (according to caighdeán). The same went for verbal nouns.

Múin -> múineadh, gearr -> gearradh looks easy. but crúigh -> crú not. So I tried crúigheadh, scríobhadh, léigheadh - and I was understood. Especially if you try to produce [le:] from léamh you are BOUND to fail.


I
H A T E
C A I G H D E Á N ! ! !

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1577
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

is being mirrored by some in America, who spell 'night' as 'nite'; 'though' as 'tho''; 'thru' for' 'through'

Ní rud nua é seo. Tá plow, color, check, program, catalog etc. againn abhus anseo le fada an lá. Feictear "thru" go minic ar chomharthaí bóthair, áit a mbíonn gá le gontacht.

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dennis, I cannot accept the legitimacy of the US spellings. When Noah Webster wrote his work of fiction, he must have known he was teaching people to spell wrongly.

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 342
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It seems to me like all those abreviated spellings in English are mainly used online when people chat and blog etc. If I were to write such things on a term paper I'd at least get some perculiar looks and some comment about not spending time online. I myself don't write in that manner online or anywhare else.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1578
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

I cannot accept the legitimacy of the US spellings

Nach cuma?

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1158
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

How would "i gcómhnaidhe" have been pronounced?

Exactly like "i gcónaí"? Or would there be an extra syllable or consonant?

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Ceartaigh rud ar bith atá mícheart -- úsáid phrásaí go háirithe.

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Canuck
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Username: Canuck

Post Number: 44
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Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Try working as a Canadian in an American company (in Newfoundland). Our standard Canadian spellings are already a mix of British/English. Our spell-checkers and documents get filtered to American spellings and 50% of the time I flip-flop.

Even the pronunciation of the letter Z. This is supposed to be pronounced by Americans as "Zee" and by Canadians as "Zed". When I teach my daughter the alphabet forward, I say "Zee". When saying it backwards I say "Zed". When the letter is isolated, I say "Zed" half the time and "Zee" the other half.

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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 02:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The change in the spelling has nothing to do with the pronunciation. In other words, a word spelled in the old way and the same word spelled in the new way are pronounced the same. "i gcómhnaidhe" was pronounced "i gcónaí".

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Norwegiandame
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Username: Norwegiandame

Post Number: 171
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 04:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Some Irish linguists feel that the old spelling system should have been maintained because it's what gives written Irish its uniqueness. I quite agree, but that is because I love complex spelling. Apparently not all do. :-)

Rómán, I can't understand why your Lithuanian friend understood so little. I have no problems myself, but alas - we're all different! ;-)

Scríobh Rómán: BUT - I will fight teeth-and-nails spellings like "trá", "crua" and other idiocies of caighdeán.

What is wrong with trá and crua?!?

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1362
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 06:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What is wrong with trá and crua?!?

It is pronounced trá and crua only in Connemara. In Donegal and Munster people say tráigh and cruaidh. That is to say, in Donegal we say [t̪ɾæːj] and [kɾuˑəj], and in Munster they say [t̪ɾɑːɟ] and [kɾuˑɪɟ].

Tír Chonaill abú!

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James
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Username: James

Post Number: 386
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 09:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Looks like Irish isn't the only language facing this rediculousness

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_re_us/simpl_wurdz

Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.

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Norwegiandame
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Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 07:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The written language shouldn't have been invented. Things went so smother when people only *spoke* their language. No confusion, hardly any dialects. Mebbe.
But, Lughaidh, I love trá and crua.

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Óráid_thoirní
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Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 10:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Óráid Thoirní

What would the world be like if we all talked the same way, with the same words, and with the same accents? It would be bland. Like eating Vanilla ice-cream all the time. At the start, it is doubleplusgood, but then it becomes ungood. No 'Newspeak' for me. Was that a crimethink or goodthink?

Love is universal though.

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Riona
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Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 11:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It would not be a good thing even at the start. It would be beyond bland, it would be an utter calamity and I'd be most aggrivated with the state of the world.

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Óráid_thoirní
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 12:26 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Though, in the dessert heat, Vanilla ice-cream is hard to beat.
(sorry couldn't resist)

Cén sort uachtar reoite is fearr leo? Is fearr liom "guma coganta", "tíogar", agus "sceallóg seacláid miontais". Ach, is fuath liom "bóthar creagacha".

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Óráid_thoirní
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 10:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cén sort uachtar reoite is fearr libh?

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Dennis
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 11:41 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Cén sort uachtar reoite is fearr libh?

Is maith liom "gelato affogato" = reoiteog bháite. Tá an reoiteog (uachtar reoite) milis agus an-fhuar, agus tá an caife espresso searbh agus an-te. Is iontach an rud é an dá bhlas a fháil sa spúnóg chéanna!

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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Riona
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 12:57 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is maith liom reoiteog su talun agus seaclaid freisin.

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Aonghus
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 03:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá an affogato a bhíonn ag milseoga Uí Mhurchú sa Daingean thar a bheith contúirteach!

http://www.murphysicecream.com/

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Dennis
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 06:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Contúirteach? Ró-éasca an iomarca de a ithe?

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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Lucy (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 06:26 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Better check it out Riona. Looks yummy. Irish ice cream is delicious as is the cream used to top apple tarts, etc,

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Riona
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 08:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I've never seen a website that made me so hungry for any given food product. I must go to that icecream shop! GRMMA a Aonghus for that link. Is it not OK to say icecream the way that I did, that was the first word in FP for it, I like the one on the website much better but I want to know if I was wrong to begin with.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Óráid_thoirní
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 09:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Haha.. Féach ar an suímh seo. http://icecreamireland.com/

It's Kieren Murphy himself talking about Affogato al Caffe... inniú!

Riona, I think that Milseoga refers more to desserts. Specifically for ice-cream, you can use "reoiteog" or "uachtar reoite". It must be a dialect thing. I'm sure there's more too.

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Dennis
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Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 09:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

himself talking about Affogato al Caffe... inniú!

Go hiontach! Conas a déarfá "synchronicity" i nGaeilge?

Maidir le FRC: suíomh, inniu (gan fada)

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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Aonghus
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Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 10:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Contúirteach? Ró-éasca an iomarca de a ithe?



Sin é.

quote:

Conas a déarfá "synchronicity"



Comh-am?

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Dennis
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Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 02:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Conas a déarfá "synchronicity"...?

Comh-am?

Feicim anois go bhfuil na focail seo a leanas againn in FGB:

sioncrónach
sioncrónacht = synchronism
sioncrónaigh
sioncrónú

An dóigh leat go ndéanfaidh an dara focal cúis? Carl Jung a chum an focal "synchronicity", a chiallaíonn "temporally coincident occurrences of acausal events". Tá níos mó faoi sa Vicipéid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicit%C3%A9

B'fhéidir go mbeadh "sioncrónaíocht" níos fearr i nGaeilge.

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 04:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dennis, I have managed to live my whole life without using or needing or seeing the word "synchronicity", so I imagine I will manage without its Irish equivalent too.

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Dennis
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Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 04:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Nach méanar duit, DW?

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 3388
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Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 03:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ní maith liom iad. Ró meamráiméiseach.

Tá "comhthráth" ann freisin in FGB.

Céard dearfá le "comhthráthúlacht"?



tráthúil [aidiacht den dara díochlaonadh]
in am, i dtráth (is tráthúil a tháinig sé); oiriúnach, deisbhéalach (focal tráthúil; is tráthúil an mac é).

Foirmeacha Dírithe :
tráthúlacht [ainmfhocal baininscneach den tríú díochlaonadh]

(Message edited by aonghus on July 09, 2006)

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Dennis
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Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 04:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Meamraiméis. Sin focal nua domsa!

Tá an focal "meamram" (< Lat. membrana) agam, ach chinn orm ciall ar bith a bhaint as "parchment-ese". Ach luíonn "memorandum-ese" le réasún.

Ní dóigh liom, áfach, gur "officialese" atá againn sna focail "sioncrón-", ach cuid d'fhoclóir idirnáisiúnta na heolaíochta. Sin ráite, is maith liom "comhthráthúlacht"!

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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Odwyer
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Post Number: 100
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Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 06:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ceárd is brí "Nach méanar duit"?

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Dennis
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Post Number: 1591
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Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 11:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

nach = is not?
méanar = fortunate, happy
duit = for you

How would you say that in everyday colloquial English?

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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Aaron
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Username: Aaron

Post Number: 81
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Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 12:55 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Nach méanar duit?

"Is not happy for you?"

Is it:

"Doesn't that make you happy?"

or

"Are you not happy?"

Which sense?

(Message edited by aaron on July 10, 2006)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3390
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Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 08:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In Hiberno Irish: "Isn't it well for ye!"



Maidir le sioncrón, bheadh glacadh agam leis i comhthéacs eolaíochta; ach tá an leagan eile níos sothuighte, dar liom.

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Dennis
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Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 01:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Nach méanar duit!

"Isn't it well for ye!"

Nó: Aren't you lucky!?!

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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Maidhc_Ó_g
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Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 08:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

GRMMA, a Aonghuis as an nasc sin!
Tá sé i m'intinn anois ag déanamh síoróipe 'currant' dubh chun a iarradh i mo Ghuinness.

Back to the silent consonants bit. My own name.

Modern - Ó Gacháin
Older - Ó Gái¢÷ea¥áin



(Message edited by Maidhc_Ó_G. on July 10, 2006)

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Pangur_dubh
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Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 06:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bheadh mise lán sásta le comhthráthúlacht.

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Odwyer
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Post Number: 111
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Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 09:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

everyday colloquial English: Either "good for you!" or "Aren't you lucky!"

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Fe arn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 09:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Dhennis,

"""Isn't it well for ye!" ""???

Nach iolra ye, nó an seachrán atá orm?

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Dennis
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Post Number: 1599
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Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 10:18 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Nach iolra ye, nó an seachrán atá orm?

Cuir an cheist ar Aonghus. Is eisean a mhol an t-aistriúchán sin. Ach... nach idir "ye" agus "yes" /yi:z/ atá an t-idirdhealú anois? (Cf. "y'all" vs. "all y'all").

Go raibh [do rogha meafar] leat!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3409
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Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 10:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Iolra ab ea "ye" sa Bhéarla tráth. Ach i mBéarla na hÉireann, is dóigh liom gurbh uatha atá ann, agus yis san iolra.

Nach méanár dúinn go bhfuilimid iolbhéarlach?

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Fe arn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 10:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I gcead duit a aonghuis, chuala mé ya mar uatha agus ye mar iolra. Chuala mé yis agus yous freisin mar iolra, ach canúintí iadsan is dócha ;)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 3412
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Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 04:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"ye" gairid a chloisimse do uatha.

Ach is cuma liom!

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An Béarlóir Líofa (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 06:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

'tú' = 'yeh'
'sibh' = 'yee'

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Fe arn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 09:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thar oíche, cheadaigh mé leis an Shorter oxford english dictionary.

Tá ye ann leis na céadta de bhlianta ag líonadh is ag trá idir na bríonna tú, tú le meas, agus sibh ; sa ghnáthchaint, caint mheasúil is fhileata.

Fágann sin go bhfuilimid go léir ar an gceart.

Anois, nach deas an réiteach sin?

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 3420
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Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 11:57 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is ea, gan amhras. Nach méanar dúinn!

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Fe arn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 07:17 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is méanar is ró-mhéanar dúinn, bail ó Dhia orainn.



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