quote:

Significantly, the success of the all-Irish schools is not dependent on factors such as the social background of the pupils, the level of education reached by their parents or the use of Irish in the family home.

http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=1178&viewby=date

quote:
"The study also reveals that the standard of Irish in Gaeltacht schools has declined significantly."

Nach mór an náire é !!! Cha bhíonn an rialtas ábalta a dheath a dhéanamh ar son na teangtha a choíche, tá eagla orm! Cad é ab fhéidir a dhéanamh ionas go mairfidh ’n teangaidh ins a’ Ghaeltacht féin ?

A Lughaidh,

Are you REALLY surprised? The Gaeltachts recede as chagrin's skin (I hope I spelled it correctly), so the standard in "Gaeltacht" schools is dropping. There vast masses of land which are classified as Gaeltacht (east Galway, Iveragh, almost all of Mayo, joyce county etc) - but no Gaelainn is spoken there for at least 50 years. So how can we reasonably expect the children from such territories to possess Gaelainn bhlasta?? It is ridiculous.

What I am interested in - the Gaeltacht boundaries IMMEDIATELY redrawn, and only territories where at least 50% speak DAILY should qualify! And then we can commission studies and see what is happening there. I am more than sure that 2 schools mentioned in the article lie in territories that should not be Gaeltacht in the first place!

Breis:
http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&dates=2006-06&viewby=date

Tá roinnt altanna agus tuairimíocht ann inniu.

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Rómán,

I disagree.
A blanket redrawing of gaeltacht boundaries will make things worse. What is needed is a sliding definition of "Gaeltacht", with different levels of support and regulation.

There are studies ongoing:

http://www.cogg.ie/gaeilge/foilseachain.asp?id=37&cid=234


http://www.pobail.ie/en/MinistersSpeeches/2004/April/htmltext,4225,en.html

quote:

Staidéar teangeolaíoch ar úsáid na Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht a chosnóidh tuairim is €550,223 in iomlán - íocfar €220,089 den ollchostas sin i 2004. Síníodh an conradh i leith an staidéir ar 1 Aibreán le hAcadamh na hOllscolaíochta Gaeilge, Ollscoil na hÉireann, Gaillimh a bheidh ag tabhairt faoi i gcomhar leis an Institiúid Náisiúnta um Anailís Réigiúnach agus Spásúil, Ollscoil na hÉireann Má Nuad.

http://www.spd.dcu.ie/main/research/student_teacher_attitudes.shtml

Breis:
http://www.nuim.ie/nirsa/people/research_associates/ogiollagain.shtml

A Aonghuis,

What do you mean by word WORSE? Can it be WORSE than it is now? One of the biggest parties in Ireland in a completely serious mode is dicussing DROPPING Irish from curriculum. Can you give example of ANY state around the globe that would be caught up in the same discussion???

Second thing - the referendum in An Dangean is scheduled for in October. Can it really get WORSE than that?

Even India recently change colonial city names Bombai, Madras and so on to native alternatives. Or are dingle-headed freaks from An Dangean claiming that Bombay was less well-known around the world? C'mon people, what is wrong with this state?

Boundaries of gaeltacht MUST be redrawn for one simple reason. The money is wasted now on propping up people who don't care about Irish fanning animosity among English-speakers, while not benefitting Irish-speakers at all.

My favorite example is Mayo. Almost all money goes to Belmullet. Visit gaelsaoire - only Belmullet is listed. But why? No Irish is spoken there. So maybe the border has to be redrawn that people from Ceathrú Taidhg and Blacksod get at least SOMETHING?

The same situation in Ciarraí - all money going to An Dangean, and yet those ungrateful pigs wanna Sacs-Béarla name on the town! Fancy that!

Let's rememeber why Gaeltacht scheme was established - at the foundation of the state the gaeltachts were destitute places with creaking infrastructure (or even no to speak of), bad housing, no jobs. People were leaving (primarily for England and States). So grants were devised to make people's life better, to persuade them to stay and thus to stop Gaeltachts depopulating. The initial intention was quickly forgotten and every successive winning party was intent on including THEIR constituency into Gaeltacht not on merit, but considering "pork" - all that money that came with Gaeltacht status attached.

So people in Belmullet and An Dangean are happy to take the cash, free advertisement by Údaras on gaelsaoire - and of course they are allergic to speaking that "tongue of no use".

So my question - why Belmullet or East Galway should get any subsidies to stop them from depopulating? There are many places in Ireland that lose inhabitants to close urban area - so why THESE must be exceptional and get support? I wouldn't care less if ALL people from Belmullet migrating to Sligo - who CARES? they DON'T speak language anyway!

So in my opinion - Oileán Chléire, Músgraí, An Rinn, Corca Dhuibhne west of An Daingean, Uíbh Ráthach - small patch around Baile 'n Scéiling, Conamara (WEST of Gailleamh), but not Roundstone (or whatever its name), Tuar Mhic Éadaigh (but not Joyce county), Ceathrú Taidhg, Blacksode (no Achill though), Gaoth Dobhair, Fanad, small patch around Colm na Cille, Ráth Cairn (but not Gibstown) should get any money. And that's it. For others - ok - make all schools in vicinity gaelscoileanna, speak Irish to your children and in 5-10 years time - try luck applying for Gaeltacht status. Eventually all Ireland might become Gaeltír as planned initially. It is only matter of will.

p.s. And of course all logainmneacha have to be Irish only starting tomorrow. It is simply unimaginable that a FREE state uses names of colonial masters 80 years since independence! English names in 99% are mangled Irish names anyway.

"It is only matter of will. "

Absolutely true. That is both the best hope for the language, and the most discouraging statement regarding it at the same stroke.

I rather like the idea of all signs, government services and gov't business in Irish only. Don't speak Irish? Learn it or hire a translator for yourself (creating a large number of new jobs for those fluent). The government can even keep a payroll of translators for those who can't afford to hire one but still need to have a case tried etc. Newspaper or magazine wants to publish 75% of it's content in Irish? Give 'em a stipend...same thing for radio and tv broadcasters. Want to make it 98-100%? Give 'em more. Foreign company wants to open offices in Tipperary? If they run their daily internal business in Irish give them a tax break or something. Run every state school in the country as a gaeilscoil at all grade levels without exception...no english schools at all.

Economic opportunity for english vs Irish and the state education system is what contributed both to the current state of Irish and to the attitudes of Irish parents over the centuries who did the rest. Those same tools need to be used to reverse the trend and attitudes.

Rómán,

the situation is simply not as black and white as that.

An Daingean is the town for most of western Corca Dhuibhne.

Cut it out of the gaeltacht, and there is no secondary school in the Gaeltacht. That is part of what killed Irish in Uíbh Ráthach.

And so on.

The thing about the money is mostly fictional and dishonest journalism. Redrawing gaeltacht boundaries will not change either - the money will be spent in the same places on the same things - but it will come under another heading. So what? It will certainly not become magically available to be spent in the real gaeltacht - they won't have the votes to matter.

Aonghus - set up a school in Dún Chaon, or Baile na nGall - much more deserving places than An Daingean.

I didn't understand your point on Uíbh Ráthach - virtually the whole peninsula IS Gaeltacht, so Baile 'n Scéiling is the closest you can get to "town" in the environ. And it was gaeltacht since the foundation of the state! Ain't there a secondary school there???

And still - coming back to An Daingean. Despite not being Gaeltachts the gaelscoileanna are up and running in Corcaigh, Luimneach, Sligeach, BÁC, Gailleamh. What is wrong with having a school in An Dangean even if it is not a Gaeltacht anymore? I was talking about grants to set up family-run B&B disproportionate share of which go to places like Belmullet and An Dangean to the detriment of the like Cúil Aodha and Baile na nGall.

The press release and full report are here:
http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?maincat=10861&pcategory=10861&ecategory=10 876§ionpage=13637&language=EN&link=link001&page=1&doc=31830

---

BTW, Rómán, what is your list of gaeltachtaí above based on? Many of those areas are borderline and under severe pressure.

Those are the places where at least 25% speak Irish daily. Data - stats from census and Cuisle report.

The town for Uíbh Ráthach is Cathair Saidhbhín, which is where the secondary school is. They are only now re-establishing an Irish language stream in an english speaking secondary school.

The Uíbh Ráthach Official Gaeltacht is fragmented.

There is more Irish spoken in An Daingean than in several of the places you have mentioned.

Any redrawing of boundaries needs to take account of where people work, shop, get education.

Otherwise, in borderline places, the language of services will be completely overturned to english, with no possibility to insist on irish.

And the smaller, fragmented gaeltachtaí will come under even more pressure. You can see this happening in Conamara today where the local councillors are trying to weaken the language clause because they are afraid that investment will go to the village next door which is free of gaeltacht regulation.

Are you REALLY surprised?

Yes, because I wouldn't have thought that about the part of the Gaeltacht I know, ie. NW Donegal (but maybe it isn't true there). When I was there, I heard children speaking (brilliant) Irish when playing together, etc. Same thing on Tory Isle. However, I don't know how are things in the other Gaeltachtaí because I've never been there, I just know NW Donegal.

A chairde,

This article is depressing and irritating, the truth hurts I suppose. It is dreadful how badly and incompletely Irish is taught in regular school in Ireland, I just felt bad all 'round, like what a state this world has gotten into. It is grand though that Irish-medium schools are being recognized as benificial. Hopefully people will put 2 and 2 together and come up with all-schools-should-be-Irish-only, except for English class, and that only so everyone can do grammer and read classics and what not. The thing that really makes me upset is that Gaeltacht schools are "choosing" to do lessons through English and thus the quality of Irish is going down among the kids. They shouldn't be choosing to do class in English, not only that, you'd think that since its the Gaeltacht there'd be rules about schools being Irish speaking and that one couldn't just decide to ignore those rules and do everything in English.

I think that even though Roman and Antaine have rather dramatic ideas of what must be done to better the language, I'd have to agree, sometimes desperate measure have to happen. However, I think that Aonghus's practical and down to earth advice must be taken very seriously and listened to because he actually lives in Ireland and speaks Irish all the time. He's right in that fragmenting the Gaeltacht might do more harm than good. The Irish speaking in the lacking areas simply must be brought up to snuff as it were, it would be better in my opinion, after listening to you all, to do that than to fragment the areas by redrawing the boundaries.

Beir bua agus beannacht

A Riona,

I am not suggesting to fragment the Gaeltacht - only to face the fact that gaeltachts are ALREADY fragmented - look at this funny place Roundstone in Conamara, where nobody can explain why it is gaeltacht, and further witness the patches of gaeltacht in Uíbh Ráthach on the northern shore.

What I am advocating that the millions wasted every year now go to places that really are Gaeltachts - where people DO speak language daily. Resources are limited - so they should be spent where the tongue is. E.g. to make sure that every gaeltacht has a secondary school at least - otherwise the whole scheme of support is a joke.

And of course all schools in gaeltacht HAVE TO BE gaelscoil. Otherwise I doubt sanity of education minister.

I agree with Róman that the Gaeltachtaí are fragmented. But I think any redrawing of the boundaries must take social and economic factors into account.

And up to now, while money was spent in the Gaeltacht, very little was spent directly on preserving the language.

Údarás na Gaeltachta saw its task as first and foremost to provide jobs, regardless of the effect on the language.

That is now changing.

The problem in Gaeltacht schools is that a Gaelscoil in the Galltacht is chosen by the parents because it is a gaelscoil, who can therefore be expected to support it.

In the Gaeltacht, it is just the local school, and the anglophones can put the teachers under a lot of pressure - not to mention the gaelophones concern that their children learn good english - because they themselves haven't forgotten the scorn that was poured on them and their parents who had to leave the gaeltacht for work, and might not have been as fluent as they wanted in english.

I would like to see say Zone A, B and C in the Gaelatcht, with different levels of regulation and support.

I could imagine a situation where of a pool of four small (and they are small) schools, one is designated the english speaking school, and the others are gaelscoileanna.

As I said, the research is ongoing; the Údarás has put plans and supports in place, local grass roots groups are working on it (many of these in areas Róman would remove from the Gaeltacht, ).

See also Stuff from Donncha Ó hÉallaithe on

http://www.anghaeltacht.net/ctg/

Though it's mostly about planning there is some general stuff on Gaeltacht Development and some links to other stuff.

E

It is my firm opinion that schools in Gaeltacht should be conducted through Irish, that's all. English permiates everything these days through media etc. so they'll be learning it well enough through TV and radio and friends and family, if the family is using English at home as too many do. It would be awfuly difficult to redraw the boundaries and then those half-Gaeltacht areas would be put to the side and not encouraged to improve on Irish so much. Energy needs to be put into improving Irish usage in the designated areas.

Beir bua agus beannacht