I feel very humiliated and silly as it may seem I actually wept a little when I realised what I had done. And as my favorite motto says, pure Orthodox(Christian) wisdom: Be humble, be simple, be modest. I'll live up to that.

I apologise for my recent "eruption" and stubbornness. Don't think I would have caused so much oppression hadn't it been for my recent mood-swings. I can be irritable and there are reasons for that which I do not want to explain. But I had never expected my irritation to harm anyone on an internet forum(!). Women work in mysterious ways.

It makes me sad to see that I have lost people's respect even though I don't know any of the offended ones personally. I never like to hurt people. I thank Riona in particular for making very sensible comments that was free from sharp reproval and I will follow her advice.

I will refrain from using the word 'Paddy' on this forum out of respect for those who take offense and hope you can forgive me.

Bail ó Dhia oraibh!

An bail céanna ortsa.

It is important to remember, and easy to forget, that a lot of the cues we use in communciating are missing in the internet - because they are non verbal.

So people can't tell whether one is being playful, sarcastic, etc.

This makes it easy to cause offense unintentionally.

For the record, I don't think you need forgiveness from me!

You are forgiven. : )

An bhail chéanna ort a bhean mhaith.

Ní raibh ann ach troid na mbó maol -
it was only a small to and froe from which no one's hurt! Níl in aon ní ach seal - things change; it'll pass and no one'll think any more about it.

Tá tú ag cur aithne ar dhaoine agus tá siad ag cur aithne ort is níl aon rud cearr leis an méid sin - everyone's getting to know each other and that's not a bad thing.

Ólfaimid deoch air ag an Oireachtas http://www.antoireachtas.ie/samhain.html nó ag Cumann Merriman http://www.merriman.ie/scoileanna/geimhreadh.ga nuair a bhainfidh tú Éire iathghlas amach -
we'll drink on it at the O. or C. M. when you're here in Ireland.

Le gach dea-mhéin.

Norwegian Dame, you're a sweetheart. Please don't beat yourself too hard over this; it's absolutely not worth it. You say a lot by apologizing. Cheers to you!

You are an angel...no worries. We all have bad days!

Norwegiandame,
I‘m glad you’ve said what you said. I’m glad you’ve come to understand it’s not ok here and I’m always sorry when someone is hurt. But I’m bothered that you wrote, ‘I will refrain from using the word 'Paddy' on this forum.’ Not just on this forum please. Then, as you respect people, they respect you back. It is an offensive term (not just here). I hope you feel better. It took courage to write what you did, above.
General comment:
People came together to stop this one as racial slurs are easy to recognize. But, to each person who is rude whether from shouting at people (online, CAPS feel like someone is shouting) or basically using a tone that suggests someone is stupid, please stop acting like a bully. Perhaps you don't know the effect of your words. Other people have felt humiliated and probably wept here too and it’s time to recognize that rudeness hurts and shouldn’t be tolerated. It drives people away (including me). One or two people can cause so much damage. Don’t underestimate the damage of hurtful words.

Don't underestimate the power of racial slurs.

Cumann Merriman sounds interesting.

Thanks for reading everyone and thanks for forgiving me.

Seosamh Mac Muiri, a drink sounds nice! I hope that's a serious suggestion? It'd be fun to meet people here!

Thank you for your post, Norwegiandame. I apologize for the harshness of my previous post to you. I'd been quite put off and felt that gentler admonitions about not using the word weren't getting through, but I very much regret hurting your feelings. I appreciate your decision to stop using the word "paddy" here, and I respect you a lot for starting this thread to resolve the conflict. Go raibh maith agat!

A Norwegiandame a chara,

You are a sweet creature and it probably took some guts to apologize. As people we usually don't enjoy being humbled or humiliated and it is a hard place in which to find oneself. Sometimes I get quite angry and say things that are mean and cruel and unfair, things which are hurtfull to people I care for as well as people I don't prefer. I've got a dreadfull temper so I know how it is to be sorry for something I've said in the heat of the moment. At anyrate its over and through now so don't be worrying over it again.

I'm glad that even after a huge fight we can all make up and continue on as friends.

I do wish, as Seosamh said, that we could all meet someday over a drink at a pub. That would be grand. I really like the all of you and I appreciate being able to be a part of this forum.

Beir bua

Only I'm not quite old enough to drink. ; )

I am very impressed by the culture of this forum. I have been on several lists (related to different interests) and have been disappointed by the "level" of interaction.

When all of this happened I felt really bad for Norwegiandame. I knew that she was wrong in her stubborness and since she is such a kind person I figured that this would be humiliating for her. I am very happy that there are places like this and that a person like her can explore their beliefs without being permenantly judged.

I wish that I had made less mistakes in my youth. Anyway it's all over now and yes I would love a drink. Is anybody passing by Albuquerque, New Mexico (United States)?

A Shashana a chara,

Croga 75 lives in New Mexico and he's been looking forever for someone to study with because the Gaeilge resources in the area are reputedly quite lacking. Just thought I'd mention that to you.

A Odwyr, a chara,
I'm really confused. Are there 2 Odwyrs running around on this forum or are you one and the same, I can't get used to you until I know what's going here. Because we've had one who has been around for about a month or 2 and then we have yourself, am I just absolutely confused or what. Please set me straight.

Beir bua

Go raibh maith agat a Riona.
You always have such nice replies! You're right about Croga 75. We exchanged a few e-mails but he was the last to write and we've been too disorganized to reply. Sorry Croga! We'll get back to you and of course you're welcome to a Guinness next time you're in Albuquerque!

Well I was born, raised, and am still living in Dublin, and I take no offence from "paddy". I don't know what all the hype was about, because if anything, "paddy" is more of a playful knickname than a racial slur. I actually find it ridiculous that it was considered to be a racial slur; one's pride in being Irish is based a lot on having the craic, i.e. drinking Guinness, having red hair, driving a tractor. But then again, I don't speak for the Irish nation.

I dont drive a tractor (altho there is one outside), I dont have red hair, I dont drink Guinness, I dont have any craic (and no friends). And, I speak for everyone.

quote:

And, I speak for everyone.

Once again, you prove just how much of a social retard you really are -- I'm just surprised you didn't find time for a sleazy comment in your last post.

Nach dtuigeann tú gurbh ioróin a bhí i gceist?

(Ólaimse Guinness, ní thiomáinim dada, nílim rua, ach táim béalscaoilte. Ach ní maith liom drugaí crua cosúil le craic).

Fear na mbróg and Rober, please! No new fights! :-(

Julia, it's allright. We're cool now! :-)

A Norwegiandame, a chara, - way to go! Nice posting!


Scríobh O'Dwyer:

quote:

Only I'm not quite old enough to drink. ; )

Not even a soda - wow, you must be very young!

(Just kidding!)

Is deas sibh a fheiceáil i mbun spraoi le chéile - It's nice to see all having an odd tickle at each other and yet so far apart geographically.

Is aoibhinn an aimsir abhus a chairde agus is aoibhinn crainn, ál an aeir agus gach neach beo féadaim a rá.
Nature is in full bloom here a chairde, after a good wet month, the sun has been cutting the rocks in two here for a few days now and the trees are magnificent to behold. Tá clann Lir ag triall ar éigean suas an tSionainn - The swans are moving slowly up the Shannon.

Tá na mic léinn bailithe leo agus tá cuid den fhoireann ag caolú leo chomh maith, a gcuid oibre déanta. Iad siúd ar conradh faoi smúid nó faoi áthas, cá bhfios, ag tabhairt aghaidh amach ar an saol. 'Anocht scaoilid na scola' ...
Tá mé féin le héalú amach ag déanamh na gcos is an anama faoi shúil the Ghoill mhic Mhorna. (Caithfidh mé LÁ a cheannach go fóill.)

Sgf.

Seosamh, please reply to my e-mail!!
Bí sciobtha anois! Tá mé ag marbh!!

NWD I am American of Irish heritage
Da was a Belfastman.
Maternal Grands from Limerick
I do not find "paddy" to be
offensive, amusing but not offensive
what I do find ofensive is the term "fighting Irish"
and the stupid clown mascot for Notre Dame!
a real bastard icon of the past when the Irish
were considered uncouth. but here in the USA it is
ok to mock the Irish they are white, the P.C.
police will come in and take you away if the name of a team was the "watermelon eaters" or the "drunk mexicans"
but here do not disparage Native Peoples bad juju that one is but ok to slam the Irish....hmmm I may change my opine yet. there are more disturbing words out there and paddy aint one of them.
I felt a warm feeling when as a child i was called "my lil paddy bogtrotter" by me gran

>> Seosamh, please reply to my e-mail!!
Bí sciobtha anois! Tá mé ag marbh!!

-- I've looked in both inbox and delete but can't find anything a Chailín na hIoruaidhe.
When did you post - Cathain a sheol tú é?

Context is everything...you call an Irish kid a "lil paddy bogtrotter" in front of his parents or other relatives and you'd be lucky to escape with all of your limbs intact!

quote:

Context is everything

Is fíor duit.

"Context, context, context" i gcúrsaí teanga, agus "location, location, location" in real estate.

Seosamh, apologies. It was Séamas that I was trying to get to. :-) Hope Séamas sees this. Apologies, again Seosamh!

Tá tú ceart - that's okay a bhean mhaith.

O'Dwyer form a moth ago and I are one and the same. I made a new account to see if I coulodn't get an apostrophe in there. Didn't work.

Sure and I'm glad I understand now a chara because you had me ever so confused, then again that is nothing new. Thanks for clarifying for me. You seem to be a really smart kid. Well done you for jumping right in to all this.

A Robert a chara,
Sure you're a bit obnoxious sometimes but you're really helpfull and I'm sure you have friends. You actually remind me a lot of a neighbor of mine who is so much like yourself so I'm used to you because of that, doesn't mean I like nasty comments, but I do think FNB was too harsh just there.

A Sheosamh a chara,
Do you like poetry because the way you write is so fancifull like a poet.

And the funny thing about this patty business is that the people who live in Ireland (Aonghus, FNB etc.) don't seem to be nearly as bothered by it as the Americans are. Hmmmmmmm

Beir bua

I think that people build up personae to go with the names, and over time attributed personae build up reputations. My crime has been to make jokes that would be funny in my social grouping, yet evidently dont translate to those with no irony or those who purport to like Ireland, but arent willing to accept what natives are like. Or Jackeens who put their shoes in their mouths.

As a consequent of the imagined personae to go along with 'Robert' (which I have mentioned before is not my real name etc) simple matter of fact statements on topics as wide apart as aleovlar trills, Haiku, Russian crime, and tractor driving are misconstrued. An example is to call someone abnoxious over a harmless twisting of a sentance, and then to compare the imagined personality who wrote it, an avatar if you will, to a perception of a real person just because they line up in ones perception and memory.

I doubt the real typer of this message is like your neibhour. If we were to have our pictures to go along with the avatars, opinions would change too. Older members would be expected to have a sage look about them, with grey hair. Riona, you would be expected to be young, blonde, and with an 'American' smile. F na mB would have to be either preppie, or a Damian Rice listener.

A lot of the arguements are over offence taken by real people because imaged people wrote something you find unpalatable

I picked an interesting moment to put up my pic. Would anyone like to judge it?

I've driven a tractor before, and I drink Guinness. Someone once asked me if I dyed my beer green on st. Patrick's Day, and I pointed out the scientific impossibility of making Guinness green. When people ask what my nationality is, I sometimes say Californian.

Anyway...

I would like to say that I have had the pleasure of knowing several Norwegians, two on a more personal level, and I have found Norwegians to be very warm, kind and generous people. Jeg skulle gjerne ha en Guinness....

(Message edited by aaron on June 03, 2006)

Countee Cullen was one of the most respected poets with the intellectual patrons of the Harlem Renaissance. Seo dán a scríobh sé:

Incident
Once riding in old Baltimore,
Heart-filled, head-filled with glee,
I saw a Baltimorean
Keep looking straight at me.

Now I was eight and very small,
And he was no whit bigger,
And so I smiled, but he poked out
His tongue, and called me, "Nigger."

I saw the whole of Baltimore
From May until December;
Of all the things that happened there
That's all that I remember.

I was never called a 'Paddy' in Ireland but then it doesn’t make sense in Ireland, does it? The word only has an effect when used to disparage.
Sasana:
I remember flying to London on my own to take The Japan Foundation Japanese Proficiency Exam. I was excited. I’d studied really hard and I was looking forward to the challenge. Before the doors to the building opened I chatted with other students. When the doors opened, I went straight to the guy at the desk to ask for directions. He looked at me as if I was crazy and asked me if I spoke Japanese and if I spoke it with an Irish accent and if there were there any other 'Paddies' taking the exam. I felt my cheeks redden, my head dropped and I found out the location from someone else. The feeling of humiliation lasted a long time and recalling it, I feel it again.
An Astráil:
In Australia, when on holiday, I was having a great time until a shopkeeper, on hearing our accents talked straight to us about all the 'Paddies' in town for the rugby game and hoped there wouldn’t be trouble from them. No word from him about the English fans. That’s what I remember most about Australia (that and the sight of aborigines reduced to begging for money and the people who mocked them).
Meiriceá:
In America, only once did I encounter a negative stereotype directed at me. Someone in the playground mistook me for my children’s maid rather than their mother. The husband of the lady who made the mistake was mortified as she explained how a lot of Irish came over as nannies on the West Coast.
But I remember people welcoming me to my neighborhood saying how there had been people playing Mexican music looking at the house before us and how they were so glad we got it. I see discrimination against Mexicans and people from other Spanish speaking countries on a daily basis here and it’s ugly. It’s so common, most people don’t even know they’re doing something wrong.

I don’t use the word 'nigger' jokingly nor do I use 'Paddy'. There is nothing funny about how these words have been used to humiliate people.
Some people are blessed with the ability to be able to shake off insults and deal with them in an objective way. If you are blessed with this ability, please understand that there are many people who can't do that. I remember boys teasing a girl when I was a teenager calling her ‘pudgy’ over and over. She battled anorexia a few years later. They still don’t see what they did wrong.

Robert,
Can you explain to me the irony of
‘Jackeens who put their shoes in their mouths.’? Or is it humor, or both?

Thanks,
C

Mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí.Praise a youth and she will come.
Beagán a rá agus é a rá go maith. Say little but say it well.
Maireann na daoine ar scáil a chéile.The people live in one another's shadows.
Is buaine focal ná toice an tsaoil.A word is more enduring than worldy wealth.
Ní thuigeann an sách an seang.The well-fed (person) does not understand the slender (person).
Is í an dias is troime is ísle a chromas a cheann.The heaviest ear of grain bends its head the lowest.

"If we were to have our pictures to go along with the avatars, opinions would change too. Older members would be expected to have a sage look about them, with grey hair. Riona, you would be expected to be young, blonde, and with an 'American' smile. F na mB would have to be either preppie, or a Damian Rice listener."

What would I look like? : )

quote:

What would I look like?

Cuir do phictiúr faoi d'ainm agus beidh a fhios againn. Is duine thú, ní avatar.