When can the set phrase "ag cur eolas ar"/get/ting to know.." ? Only about people?

Is "ag cur ceist orm, ort etc"(ask ... a question) a set phrase?
Any other ways of saying this?

Is there a difference between the usages of "tamall" and "ar feadh píosa" and "ar ball"? "Ar ball" I've seen used as both 'later' and 'in a while'.

How do I write "Thuigeann mé gur atá fearg ort" in past tense: I understand that you WERE angry" ? Please correct above sentence if incorrect.

Tuigim go raibh fearg ort.

tuigim - tuigeann tú - tuigeann sé - tuigimid

bhí - ní raibh - an raibh - go raibh - nach raibh

Cuireann tú aithne ar dhaoine, agus eolas ar rudaí.

Cén difríocht atá idir "later" agus "in a while"?

The interesting thing about "ar ball" is that it can refer to past or future time. I suspect that that was what Cecilie had in mind.

Bhí sé anseo ar ball. Níl a fhios agam cá ndeachaidh sé!

= He was just here / he was here a little while ago. I don't know where he went!

Tá mé cinnte go mbeidh sé ar ais ar ball.

= I'm sure that he'll be back in a little while.

But I think I mostly just use it for future time. What's your feeling, a Aonghuis?

Is dóigh liom gurbh fíor dhuit! Ach tá "later" agus "in a while" araon faistineach.

Dennis, yes. The sentence where it said "ar ball" was something like "Beidh sé ar ais ar ball..." Future!
Thanks for pointing that out, Dennis Rí na Ghaeilge.

Aonghus Rí na Féasóige :) (Sin é an féasóg is breácha... that I have ever seen dála an scéil! Breathnaíonn tú mar manach! An-bhreá! <---FRO) , please translate your last post?

Go raibh maith 'ad, a fhear na mbróg!

Scríobh Aonghus: Cuireann tú aithne ar dhaoine, agus eolas ar rudaí.

Ceart! :)

(Message edited by norwegiandame on June 01, 2006)

is fíor dhuit -> you are correct

fáistineach [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
fear nó bean feasa, fáidh; sa ghramadach) foirm den bhriathar a léiríonn an gníomh a bheith le teacht


Is leor nod don Ioruach!

---

I have ever seen

dá bhfaca mé riamh

Thanks, Aonghus!

Scríobh an Rí na Féasóige: Is leor nod don Ioruach!

It's a lot.... for the.. Norwegian?

By the way, is there any good online dictionary?
Focal.ie doesn't always work for me.

Ceist: What means "dá"? Some sort of relative form?

Do you use http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/ ? Not sure how good it really is, but seems decent!

I have tried that one, Aindréas. It works only some times, doesn't have all words.

quote:

Is leor nod don Ioruach!

It's a lot.... for the.. Norwegian?

Tá nath againn i nGaeilge: Is leor nod don eolach.

is leor = is enough

nod = hint*

don eolach = to/for the knowledgeable/learned person

* Nod is literally an abbreviation or scribal contraction, from Latin "nota" :

http://quidnunc.net/~garyi/noda/notae.html

I was punning. There is a proverb:

Is leor nod don eolach	the knowledgable one requires only a hint
Is leor nod don Ioruach	The norwegian requires only a hint

I use http://www.csis.ul.ie/focloir/ - but it is Irish/Irish.

---

leor [aidiacht den chéad díochlaonadh]
nach beag, a dhéanann cúis (is leor sin; ní leor dó é).

nod [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
leid; giorrúchán

Why do I require only a hint?
I like to have things served on a plate! :-)
Aonghus, you made me check the dictionary to understand

"fáistineach [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
fear nó bean feasa, fáidh; sa ghramadach) foirm den bhriathar a léiríonn an gníomh a bheith le teacht".

I can make out half so far. Díochlaonadh, declension I have no knowledge of. I should have a book with explanations for grammatical terms, I guess. Could you explain, please?

quote:

Aonghus, you made me check the dictionary to understand

.

Which was my intention!

Tell me and I'll forget;
show me and I may remember;
involve me and I'll understand.


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=declension

A Norwegiandame, a chara,

Aonghus thinks you're clever so he wants you to work at figuring things out rather than just telling you, because he knows you can.

Beir bua

quote:

Tell me and I'll forget;
show me and I may remember;
involve me and I'll understand.

What a nice saying! It should be a proverb.

Here's my attempt at translating it into Irish

Abair mé agus dearmadfaidh mé;
Taispeáin me agus is cuimhim liom é, b'fhéidir;
Bain a bheith agam, agus tuigfidh mé.

I would love if someone could correct my feeble attempt above. Go raibh maith agaibh.

Abair liom...
Taispeáin dom agus (seans go m)beidh cuimhne agam air
Tarraing isteach (sa scéal) mé...

"Involve me" is hard! Is dócha go bhfuil réiteach níos fearr ná sin ann.

Tá an méid seo thuas beagán ró-fhoclach le bheith ina sheanfhocal. Céard faoi seo:

Is fearr taispeáint ná insint,
agus is fearr cleachtadh ná taispeáint.

??

Molaim do chuid Gaeilge, a Mhic Léinn. Ná ceil orainn í!

Is maith liom an leagan gorm sin, a Dennis.

Back to your second question:
How do I write "Thuigeann mé gur atá fearg ort" in past tense: ‘I understand that you WERE angry’?
Re. "Thuigeann mé gur atá fearg ort" Please correct above sentence if incorrect...
You’re combining an 'h' and an 'ann' ending. Thuigeann’s 'h' indicates the past and 'ann' the present.

To fix this
change 'Thuigeann mé gur atá fearg ort.' to
Tuigim go bhfuil fearg ort. I understand that you’re angry.

More examples in other tenses:
Tuigim go raibh fearg ort. I understand that you were angry.
Thuig mé go raibh fearg ort. I understood that you were angry.
Tuigim go mbeidh fearg ort. I understand that you will be angry.

Ach tá súil agam nach mbeidh fearg ort :)
‘Hope this helps,
C

Re: Is fearr taispeáint ná insint,
agus is fearr cleachtadh ná taispeáint.
Aontaím leat a Aonghuis. Tá sé go maith.

Yes, Caitriona, I knew that I was wrong. I was thinking to different things at the same time and when I discovered it was too late to correct my post. Thanks anyway for the examples!

One thing though.. Why can I not use 'gur'?
Has to do with the copula, doesn't it?

Why isn't
"Taispeáin dom agus (seans go m)beidh cuimhne agam air
Tarraing isteach (sa scéal) mé..."
... good enough?

"Show me...!" has a different message than "It is better to show...". The former is imperative, which creates a different sort of atmosphere. The latter sounds more like a proverb(ach cé go bhfuil tá se go maith!). Ceart?

(Message edited by norwegiandame on June 04, 2006)

quote:

The latter sounds more like a proverb

Yes, exactly. Is maith leis na Gaeil gontacht.

Re: One thing though.. Why can I not use 'gur'?
It’s because you’re using an irregular verb that has this form.
Six of them do: Abair, Bí, Déan, Feic, Faigh, Téigh.
Regular verbs like 'Oscail' or 'Bris' for example, use ‘gur’ in the past tenseas in these examples:

Feicim gur oscail tú an doras. I see that you opened the door.
Dúirt sí gur oscail sé an fhuinneog. She said that he opened the window.
Tharla sé gur bhris mé an lampa. It happened that I broke the lamp.
Tuigeann do Dhaidí nár bhris tú é. Your Daddy understands that you didn’t break it.

It’s a good idea to learn the 11 irregular verbs. Six of these use ‘go’ instead of ‘gur’:
1. Abair.......go ndúirt/ nach ndúirt
2. Beir
3. Bí..........go raibh
4. Clois
5. Déan........go ndearna
6. Feic........go bhfaca
7. Faigh.......go bhfuair
8. Ith
9. Tabhair
10. Tar
11. Téigh......go ndeachaigh

Progress in Irish p33 has the past tense of the irregulars. The ones that use 'Ní' in the past, use 'go' in indirect speech. Ní dhearna. An ndearna? ...go ndearna etc.

quote:

Is maith leis na Gaeil gontacht.

Bíonn blas ar an mbeagán
agus
Tosach feasa fiafraí

---

Dála an scéil, an eol d'aoinne bunús an seanfhocal a thus mé thús? Cuireann google síos do na Sínigh agus na Meiriceánaigh dúchasacha araon é.

Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand. - Confucius, ceapaim.

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22Tell+me+and+I%27ll+forg et.+Show+me+and+I%27ll+remember.+Involve+me+and+I%27ll+understand%22++Confucius& word2=%22Tell+me+and+I%27ll+forget.+Show+me+and+I%27ll+remember.+Involve+me+and+ I%27ll+understand%21%22++Native+American

Tá sórt amhras orm. Ba bhreá liom foinse údarásach d'fháil.

Thank you so much for all of that, Caitriona!
That'll be very useful! Do you think I should buy "Progress in Irish"? Does "Learning Irish" have the same content?

You're welcome is tá fáilte romhat. It’s my pleasure. I’m glad you’re so interested in the language.
Yes, I highly recommend Progress in Irish.
http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1063 Where to buy it http://www.gaeilge.org/PII-ak.html Answers to Progress in Irish
http://www.philo-celtic.com/PII/Progress.htm sounds of lessons http://groups.yahoo.com/group/progressinirish/ group-learning online

The content is different than Learning in Irish. Progress in Irish is more concise and geared towards understanding of grammar. There's more vocabulary in Learning Irish and passages to read.I love Ó Siadhail’s ‘Learning Irish’ because I love Conamara Irish. I’d use it if you want to focus on western Irish. His spellings often differ from the standard Irish but you get a better sense of the real sound of the word as spoken in the west with his book.

I’m thinking of putting up a few short stories with Conamara Irish for those who are beyond simple kids’ textbooks and for whom the long books are still too hard. It would be good for vocabulary building and fun to be able to read a complete story.

Caitriona! That is a very brilliant idea!
I for one would appreciate it greatly if you put up such short stories! :-)

Think I'll stick to LI, but those audio lessons from PiI will be useful! Thanks a lot!!

A Chaitriona,

I too would enjoy and appreciate your efforts to share stories in the Irish of Conamara.

Ceist: I notice that Conamara is also spelled Connemara. Is there a difference in the meanings or is it just simply a spelling variation?

One is an anglicized version of the other:

Con na Mara is "People of the Sea" in old Irish, if my recollection is correct.

Connemara is just the anglicized version of that phrase.

I'm sure we'll get some more academic insight...this is just what I think I remember reading somewhere, one day, long, long ago.

Sin é. I sometimes mix Irish and English in a sentence when I'm in the Irish and English section. Conamara is the Irish spelling and Connemara, the anglicized version mar a dúirt James.

I thought duine was person. Is con the plural of duine?

A Odwyer a chara,

I think James siad he thought it was something in old Irish so if it actually is than it doesn't have to match perfectly with Irish now, I think.

I don't like Wikepedia as an academic reference, but..none-the-less, this is what I found on that site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connemara

And for a completely different theory:

http://www.ireland-withpatpreston.com/the_west_connemara.htm

Yeah people keep saying how Old Irish and New Irish are super different.

It would probably be well nye on, if not completely impossible for us to understand old English and old Irish is older than that.

Beir bua agus beannacht.

The original name (I'll check it) was Con maicne mara, so the modern Irish is already a contraction of an older name.

I don't remember the exact derivation - watch this space.

Go raibh maith agaibh, a James, a Chaitriona agus a Aonghuis! A Chaitriona, tá áthas orm gur d'usaid tú "Conamara." Úsaidfaidh mé "Conamara" ná an focal sin Bearlas.

(I don't know if my word order above is correct or I used the right words, but I'm encouraged by Dennis to use more Irish.) Thanks for the compliment Dennis!

Thanks Dennis, Caitriona and Aonghus for your help on the proverb above. I'd like to write it out completely and ask for corrections on a separate thread.

FRC

ODwyer, if you want to see some Old Irish, you can check out the thread "Poetry for learning". I've posted some there.

(Message edited by norwegiandame on June 06, 2006)

Cúpla focal agus nasc ar stair na muintire sin.

Conmaicne Mara
Conmac + ne + Muir > Mara.

Conmac (.i. mac Fhearghusa mhic Róich; Conmac = canine fellow! wolfson) + ne (= muintir) + Mara (< muir).

Seachain sibh féin ar thuairim amháin faoi bhunús an ainm a nochtar ar cheann de na suíomhanna sin thuas. Níl ann ach sanas pobail - It's just folk etymology.

The areas of Conmaicne Magh Réin of Sth. Leitrim (Muintir Eolais) & Longford (Muintir Anghaile) still share the heritage of St. Caillín (of Fenagh) http://www.ria.ie/library+catalogue/fenagh.html from about 5th/6th cent. le muintir Chonamara and the placenames of Achadhmheas (Leitrim) and Seanachadhmheas (Conamara) might not just be a coincidence.

No shortage of references to the various Conmaicne in Onomasticon Goedelicum
http://www.ucc.ie:8080/cocoon/doi/locus/C#navtop :

conmaicne
dp., Conmaicnib, Fm. ii. 154, 808; ¶ co-ext. with d. Ardagh, the bp. of which is Bp. of Conmaicne, Fep., Au. ii. 476, 272, Fm. iv. 860, Lc. i. 304, Conb. 24 b, Mac Curtin's Antiq., 279, and passim, now d. Ardagh comprises 22 pp. in Longf., 7 in Leit., 3 in Cav., 3 in Westm., 1. in Rosc., 1 in Sli. and 1 at least (Wheery) in King's c.; ¶ it is 61 m. long, and fr. 5 to 18 m. broad, Pgi.; ¶ name of several septs in different parts of Ireland; ¶ they were desc. fr. Conmac, son of Queen Medhbh and Fergus MacRoigh; ¶ Conmhaicne Cúile Toladh, C. Dúna Móir, C. Maighe-Réin, C. Mara, C. Bec in Meath, Fen. 30, 382, 174, Lct. 100; ¶ desc. fr. Conmac, son of Medb and Fergus, It. ii. 150, Of. 275, McCurtin's Antiq. 48, Ll. 331 b, K. 138 a, Hk. 374, Lec. 253, Fir. 503; ¶ na trí Conmaicne .i. Cenél cCais, Cenél Dubháin 7 Cenél Lughna, Fm. ii. 950; ¶ Lr. Conmaicne, al. Mac Ranall's country; ¶ Upr. C.; ¶ al. c. Longf., Mac Curtin's Antiq., 81.

conmaicne bec
in Meath; ¶ I. 72 b, Fir. 537; ¶ in Cuircne Midi, Lec. 266, Bb. 92 a.

c. cenéil dubáin
Ll. 331 b, Fen. 174, Lec. 253, I. 66 b; ¶ al. C. Dúine Móir, in which Tuam t. is situated, Of. 275; ¶ now b. Dunmore, c. Galw., Fm. vi. 1974, iv. 656.

c. críche mic ercae
desc. fr. Fraech, son of Causcraid, Ll. 332, I. 72 b, Lec. 37; ¶ seems in Brefney; ¶ in Brefne, descendants of Finder, son of Causcraid, Ll. 332.

c. chonnacht
descendants of Fergus, K. 129 b.

c. cúile
Au. iii. 510, Fm. 382; ¶ al. C. Cúile Tola, q.v.; ¶ nr Daim Cluain in Ui Briuin Eola, Lbl. 900; ¶ Lec. 557 has al. C. Réin, perperam!
c. cúle talad
Lu. 52 a; ¶ C. Cula Tolaid, Ll. 331 b; ¶ C. Cúile Tola, Tl. 110; ¶ S. of Mayo, fr. r. Robe to the Black r. at Shrule, comprises a considerable part of b. Kilmaine, Fy. 487; ¶ in 1585 becomes b. Kilmaine, Wc. 2; ¶ al. b. Kilmaine, Wc. 2; ¶ al. b. Kilmaine, Of. 276, Obr., Tp., Fm. i. 16, vi. 1974, Ar. 244. Mi., Chri.; ¶ L. Masg in it, Of. 174; ¶ Moytura Conga in it, Fir. 45, 76; ¶ battle of Moytura there, Sd. 7 b; ¶ battle of Magh Nia in C. C., Fir. 44.

c. dúine móir
al. C. Dúna Móir; ¶ Tuaim t. is in it, Of. 274; ¶ now b. Dunmore, c. Galw., Wc. 95, Tp., Mis. i. 235; ¶ l. of O Siodhláin, Obr., Ui., Mi., Ci.; ¶ al. C. Cinél Dubhain, b. Dunmore, Fm. iv. 656, Fen. 174.

c. maige cairbre
in b. Granard, c. Longf., Fm. ii. 1020.

c. maige réin
in Breifne: al. the Annalies in Longf. and Eolas in Leit., Of. 275; ¶ =Angaile 7 Muintir Eolais, Obr.; ¶ tribe and tribe-1. of the O Ruaircs of Leit., Ci.; ¶ the O Ruaircs were kings of it, Ui.; ¶ al. Muintir Eolais in S. Leit., Ar. 80; ¶ as Ua Ruairc was Rí Breifne 7 C. M. R., and Ua Ferghail was Ardtoisech of Conmaicne, Au. ii. 172; ¶ I think C. M. R. comprised Annaly (Longf.) and Muintir Eolais (Leit. in part or all); ¶ the O Duigenans dwelt there, Fir. 5.

c. mara
b. of Balynahinsi, Galw., Of. 276, Obr.; ¶ the l. and folk of Connemara; ¶ Connemara in b. Ballynahinch, Galw., Tp., Mi., Ci., Ui., Fen. 382; ¶ Inis Bó Finne i cC. M. i n-iarthar Connacht, Md. 212, Fep. 114, F. 130, Fg. 152, Lct. 100; ¶ the whole of Connemara was originally the terr. of C. Mara until the Dealbhna, Dalcassians, settled in Iar Connacht, Lct. 100; ¶ O Cadhla, Lord of, Fm. ii. 1060.

c. mic oirbsen máir
settled nr L. Oirbsen, Lb. 91 b, 93 a, Fir. 537.

c. midi
Ll. 332; ¶ that part of d. of Ardagh (al. Conmaicne) which is in Westm.

c. na cúile
Lc. i. 325, adjoins C. Mara; ¶ al. C. Cúile Tola.

c. réin
al. C. Maige Réin in S. Leit.; ¶ the Shannon flows betw. it and Hui Briuin of Rosc., Ar. 80; ¶ C. R. in Breifne, Bb. 92 a, X. 153, Lec. 37, Fir. 537, Fen. 382; ¶ contained Annaly in Longf. and Muinter Eolais in c. Leit., Wc. 94.
c. réin na bfomhorach
Fm. iii. 308, iv. 1198; ¶ v. C. Réin.

c. sléibe formaoile
in W. of c. Rosc., Fm. ii. 860.