What is "a" in the expression above? I guess article, but why it is not spelled "an" then? Another "bronntanas" from Caighdeán Oifigiúil?

Re: bronntanas. Can anyone explain, why there is double "nn" in this word and none in "muintir" or "caint". Pronunciation is the same!

Le meas

Is dóigh loim gurbh an A seo atá ann:

a [forainm]
an méid atá, a bhí agus araile (sin a bhfuil ann; d'imigh a raibh i láthair).

Regarding "a" in "Tá a fhios agam" --

I've always assumed it's the possessive adjective "its" (his):

Its knowledge is at me (I have knowledge of it)

But I confess to not having thought much about it, but rather just internalised it without analysis.

A Aonghuis,

Sílir "a" = "all that"? In that case it would be eclipsis -
*tá a bhfios agam". But it is not the case!

1)Its knowledge is at me (I have knowledge of it)

Teagaim le Cionaodh air seo.

2) bronn - to donate > bronntanas for the reason of morphological consistency.

There are two ways to translate that "a". I had a lesson about that point at Coleraine University.

1. when there is a complement after (ie. a noun, a clause etc), "a" is a shortened form of the preposition "de". Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil sí tinn -> it is of-knowledge at-me that she is sick.

2. when there is no complement, "a" is the possessive masculine: tá a fhios agam = its knowledge is at-me.

Lughaidh a scríobh:

quote:

1. when there is a complement after (ie. a noun, a clause etc), "a" is a shortened form of the preposition "de". Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil sí tinn -> it is of-knowledge at-me that she is sick.

2. when there is no complement, "a" is the possessive masculine: tá a fhios agam = its knowledge is at-me.Your text

I'd think "a" is possessive masuline especially when there is a complement (as a proleptic pronoun).

Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil sí tinn
-> Is its knowledge at-me that is she sick.

Nach ceart sin?

Lars

Tá mé a rá go bhfuil sí tinn

Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil sí tinn

so it's clear what Lughaidh is driving at.

Sure, there are cases of a < de, do with nouns that further developed into adverbs, e.g. a dhath (<do dhath), a chodladh (<do chodladh).

Well, I don't need to explain it to you anyway. :)

So, in my opinion it's plausible. But it's etymology alone that can help us out.

it just occurred to me, funny enough,

Tá mé á rá go bhfuil sí breoite

in Munster, so we would expect

Tá á fhios agam go bhfuil sí breoite

there then. Though I doubt such a thing is possible there.

So we may either suggest different developments of the "fios"-construction in the Irish dialects (do fhios in the North and a fhios in the South) or agrrreee on the original "a fhios"... Just theorising, coz nno one s gonna rread it anyway ;)

Le meas, Peter

>Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil sí tinn
>-> Is its knowledge at-me that is she sick.

No, i'd translate it "Is of-knowledge at-me that is she sick"

For "a dhath", i dunno if the a is the possessive or "de". Both could be possible, according to the etymological meaning.

"a dhath < de dhath" was stated somewhere in de Bhaldraithe's "Deilbhíocht", but I can't find where exactly.

quote:

I'd think "a" is possessive masculine especially when there is a complement (as a proleptic pronoun).

Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil sí tinn
-> Is its knowledge at-me that is she sick.

Nach ceart sin?

Is dóigh liom go bhfuil an ceart agat, Lars.

At any rate, the editors (Maud Joynt and Eleanor Knott) of the "F" fascile of DIL (Old & Middle Irish) seem to agree:

"common with proleptic poss. pron. and folld. by subst. or dependent clause"

The earliest example they cite is from the Würzburg Glosses, ca. mid-8th century:

"is mó a fius deitsiu a ndorigeni di maith"

= Is mó a fhios duit-se a ndearna sé de mhaith

= you know better (lit. more) all the good he has done

So to recap because ye all really start sounding confusing, all ye:

quote:

Ta a fhios agam go/ ná ________

"a" is "his" and refers to following (or implied) subordinate clause. Bearing in mind that possessive adjectives developed from genetives of personal pronouns one can interpret this sentence as:

I have knowledge of it (that...)


The version with "de" sounds completely improbable to me. phrases with "de" usually complement other nouns, so "Tá de fhios agam" sounds strange, because I would expect "Tá cuid de fhios agam" in such case. I am not sure if it is possible to employ oblique cases of uncountable nouns without measure specification .i. "ceann", "cuid", "roinnt" 7rl.

An fíor dom?

P.S. Can any one comment on this "carn aoiligh" I got when trying to post:

Error
The following words are not allowed on this discussion board:

na/ ...) "a

Please revise your post to remove the words indicated above.

What is wrong with word "ná"?

(Message edited by Róman on May 19, 2006)

- Unless you have been taking a diachronic point of view,
or
- Unless you have been speaking of a dialect where "fhios" is pronounced as lenited "fios" and not /(@)s/,

the discussion has gone astray from the start.
(Like analyzing the French "est-ce que" as "is + this + that")

(that was me)

The version with "de" sounds completely improbable to me. phrases with "de" usually complement other nouns, so "Tá de fhios agam" sounds strange, because I would expect "Tá cuid de fhios agam" in such case. I am not sure if it is possible to employ oblique cases of uncountable nouns without measure specification .i. "ceann", "cuid", "roinnt" 7rl.

An fíor dom?

Níl sé d'am agam caint léi, (~I don't have enough time)

Níl sé de spás agam...,

Níl sé de fhoighid agam etc. (~I don't have enough patience)

PS I thought we've all been dicsussing etymology here ;)

I doubt that natives say /ta: is/ anywhere. /ta:s/ is the norm as well as /b'es/ (beidh a fhios), /v'exs/ (bheadh a fhios) etc. etc. etc.

quote:

- Unless you have been taking a diachronic point of view

Right. Synchronically, it's a bit of a moot point. Diachronically, the evidence from the Würzburg Glosses is pretty clear, since "de/do" does not get reduced to "a" in that source.

/v'exs/ (bheadh a fhios) etc. etc. etc.

Interestingly, it's /v'ets/ rather; and /v'i:ts/ (bhíodh a fhios) [though I definitely heard /v'exs/ in the LI once]

Or it can just be /v'ex@s/, /v'i:x@s/.

Peter

"Bheadh a fhios" in Donegal: /v'ew(@)s/
"Bhíodh a fhios" : [v'i:w(@)s]