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Peter
Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 126
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 09:13 am: |   
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Hi!
Here’s the question I want to clearify once and for all: what are technically /l n/ in Munster and what are /l’ n’/? I’m tired of bumping into different interpretations,
Thanks |
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Róman
Member
Username: Róman
Post Number: 234
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
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dental sounds at least broad varieties. The slender sounds used to be dental, but younger generation pronounces alveolar "d, t, n".
One thing what is very confusing is the statement that there are no "tense" N, L in Munster. While it is true that there is no tense-lax sound distinction, one must understand that Munster's /n/ and /l/ are pronounced EXACTLY as /N/ and /L/ in other dialects.
So actually you have [N], [L], [n'], [(ng)'] (corresponds to [N'] in other dialects), [l'] and interestingly enough there are different reflexes of phonemes /l/ and /L/ in Ballymacoda (area to the sounth of An Rinn and east of Cork City). /l/ is pronounced as [l] andf /L/ as [ld]. |
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Peter
Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 127
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:10 am: |
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So, that explains everything, since this is positively right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munster_Irish And this is definitely wrong: http://www.akerbeltz.org/beagangaidhlig/gramar/grammar_historyofLNR.htm At least as to the Munster Irish sonorants. The most interesting is that if we take into account up-to-date phonological analises of dialects (esp. the one of Ni/ Chasaide (1999) on Gweedore Irish, as provided here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Irish) the three-way opposition of sonorants in Modern Irish will be revealed to us. |
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Robert (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:48 am: |
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That 3 way distinction with for r has for inital words, english r, and /r/ and /r'/ in Donegal.
Lughaidh, does not want to believe me, but the retroflex is in Irish now... |
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Peter
Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 128
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:17 pm: |
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three-way opposition of sonorants in Modern Irish will be revealed to us.
No, it seems I got to correct myself. Is /N'/>/ng'/ the case of Kerry Irish? So, do i get it right:
/l'/|
....|-----> /l'/ which is alveolar
/L'/|
/n'/|------> remains phonetically the same, i.e. alveolar
as for
/N'/|------> /ng'/ palatal
or: somewhare (say Kerry, for i don't know)
/N'/ and /n'/ merge together???
So, I miscalculated here, it's a 2-way distinction in Munster. |
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Róman
Member
Username: Róman
Post Number: 237
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 10:32 am: |
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A Robeirt,
Arís, más é do thoil! Do scríobhais rud éigin ana-spéisiúil, ach ní féidir liom é tuscint! Tá brón orm. B'fhéidir leis na foclaibh eile?
A Pheadair,
/N'/ -> [(ng)`] in An Rinn, Múscraí, East Carberry
/N'/ -> [n`] West Carberry, Oileán Chléire, Bear, Uíbh Ráthach, Corca Dhuibhne
[n`] is not always alveolar - it can be dental too. |
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