My parents and I trying to find a way for me to spend a year in Japan before I graduate from highschool, in order to (re)learn Japanese and gain experience abroad for future opportunities in my life. Our plans aren't falling through as nicely as anticipated, and my folks and I were discussing it tonight.

I mentioned that if Japan becomes a definite no, I'd like to next try Ireland in order to pursue Irish as a main language for my future. My mother immediately dismissed it as silly, and tried to reason me into some other language, arguing that I need to follow something that has a high economic or business status. My here's the cool part. My dad up and straight disagrees with her! He said that I really should follow a language that I have the most interest in and passion for, no matter what the economic status or how many people speak it.

So I started to think what would happen if I did choose to go after Irish. So many people think it's dying already, and would I be able to utilize it to the extent I would other foreign languages? What good reasons are there really to study a language you love, but which may not be as "useful," as say Spanish, Japanese, or German? I'm very curious about others experiences, especially those who have had the opportunity to use Irish and other languages throughout their lives and careers.

Irish HAS a high economic value, if you choose to live in Ireland of course (what is no bad thing after all!). Several different studies have shown that fluent Gaelgeoirí can command 7-10% premium in the same position as compared to monoglots. If you choose a career in media, education, entrepreneurship - the value of Irish grows exponentially.

So my advice - if you don't mind living on Esmerald Island (Ireland) - very lucrative investment Irish is. If no - you can relish in cultural value of this language. After Irish all European language look like piece of cake.

Le meas

Just throwing in my two cents here ...

Throughout my life, I have always noticed that everything I value most, is of no particular utilitarian value. For example, I would never expect art, love, poetry, the Irish language, music, etc. to make money for me and are of no apparent monetary value in my life - yet I would be most unhappy without them. In fact, I feel sorry for people who try to calculate what they want to do in life, based solely on material gain. It looks like your dad knows what I am talking about.

Ádh mór!

if nothing else, you'll enjoy it more and learn it better than a language in which you have less interest.

Every language you learn makes learning the next easier, much like musical instruments.

My mothers a teacher, but she grew up in the North and learned NO Irish, so when she was a teacher down south, she didnt get paid as much as other teachers because she couldnt teach Irish fully
And Amazon is moving its, either European or WORLD headquarters to Cork because of the number of Bi-lingual speakers there. They also noted that the fact that 80% of their staff in Cork would HAVE to know Irish.

Learn for the sake of learning. You never know when it will become an asset. When I took Spanish in high school (many years ago) who would have thought that a decade later I'd be running around Latin America working for the US government. Then, who would have guessed that a decade or so after that, I'd be running around an ER treating Hispanic patients.

Before I finished my undergraduate degree, I took the only course offered on the base where I was stationed...it was an American Government course. Three years later, I decided to apply for a degree program through the Army. Every course they required for acceptance I had completed before joining the Army...except the government course!!

Never forego the opportunity to learn!

They also noted that the fact that 80% of their staff in Cork would HAVE to know Irish.

Sayitaintso,
I dont mean to be rude, but are you a) spoofing & speiling with your posts or b) been very optimistic?

Robert, dont worry im not spoofing, and I hope to be optimistic, but not to the piont of stupidity.
Although I could'nt find the article I read exactly, I found a very simular article from the BBC. Note it is NOT the same article I read however.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4765774.stm

I come from the States where, if it isn't Spanish, French, Italian, Russian, Chinese (Mandarin), Japanese, or German they consider it to be a Less Commonly Taught Language (LCTL).

Being a fan of the Celtic languages is not very easy for me...it is an exotic area of study and not many places offer courses in it...it's a shame really.

But more people are starting to catch on here...the next few decadeds or so should be very interesting.

And I really don't think Irish will ever die...it may never have the numbers of people who speak it on a daily basis like it did in the past...but there will always be someone who speaks it. I know it is hurting, but I think we got to it in time...

John

I'm a teacher in the States and even French, Italian and the rest get marginalized in favor of Spanish (I'm in NJ).

My own high school eliminated French from the curriculum. They only ever offered one section of it, while there were 11 sections of Spanish. German, Russian, Greek and Latin had been elimated years before.

When I was doing my initial fieldwork, the principal of an affluent grammar school that I observed proudly told all of us observers that not only did all students from kindergarten upward have a foreign language as part of the curriculum, all choice had been eliminated in favor of Spanish-only, so the students wouldn't be 'wasting their time' with 'less important languages.'

Even in the large bookstores, the 'foreign language' section is typically comprised of a small shelf containing everything but Spanish, arranged alphabetically (two or three books per) and 3x that amount of Spanish only.

We seem to be under the delusion in the US that the only language other than English one would ever have cause to use is Spanish...even in this area. While I am occasionally pleased to pass a few words in Irish with customers at my retail job, I have to say, I've needed French in order to communicate with customers five times, while only once did I encounter a customer with which I could not adequately communicate because I had no Spanish (and I was able to use my knowledge of French, and the parallel English/Spanish product information cards (for Spanish vocabulary) to formulate the information he needed in writing (I didn't trust my pronunciation) adequately enough to be understood).

oh, and might I add, that once as a teacher did I need Spanish to make a call to a parent who didn't speak english (I got the spanish teacher on the other extenstion for a 3-way call), but needed French twice - once for Hatian immigrants, and once for a Polish student who didn't speak much english, but did speak French.

Antaine,

In truth, I was talking more about the language options for college and university levels. Which is really sad because I thought if there was one place a person could go to learn something not found in a normal primary and secondary education...it would be at college.

I was just saying in another post about how my school demanded 10+ years of Spanish in order to graduate, however, we also had German and French removed. Sad really, because over 90 percent of our community is of German ancestry!

In fact, we hired and brought over a lady from Paris to teach French, and the following year fired her when we dropped the French program...:-( I am sure she had plenty to say about the US when she got back home.

Bhuel, I'm in Canada (and not NS, Toronto actually), and I use Irish conversationally just about everyday. After the diaspora Irish is no longer only in Ireland, it's an international language (afterall most of those leaving were Irish speakers). I am even able to use it at work with some of the older Irish people who come in.

Hey Dubhghaill

good to see a fellow Torontonian with interest in Irish.

Are you at U of T ? There is a small conversation group that meets on Thursdays, but the level and quality varies ( and its in the east end ).

There are more also meetings in Mississauga and Brampton but they are formal courses. Did you go to the Gaeltacht weekend in Kingston ?

This isn't patrick roche is it?

why yes it is...checking the Daltaí site while at work. and who is this ?

Danny Doyle, agus bhí mé ag an deireadh seachtaine i kingston, ach ní raibh tú ann!

Théinn go dtí ár ngrúpa le Seamus, ach ní bhíodh aon duine ann ar riamh, agus anois táim ag dul abhaile chun samhraidh. Oh, tá nuacht agam! Fuair mé airgead as mo ollscoil agus mar sin, an samraidh seo thugainn, táim ag dul chun Corcha Duíbhne chun cursa Gaeilge a fháil. Má bhfeiceann tú Seamus, inis dó é.

togha fir !

inseoidh mé dó é ( ach níl mé cinnte go mbeidh mé ann an tseactain seo...an rachfaidh tú ?)

Ní raibh mé i Kingston, bhí mé an gnothach le mo chuid oibre. An raibh sé go maith ? An raibh do nemesis Cáit ann freisin ?

(Message edited by pádraig_toronto on May 03, 2006)

Always expect me to see things in a skewered way!

Here in the eastern US we are in the midst of a mass influx of "undocumented immigrant workers" (ILLEGAL immigrants in the real world) and these folks are the reason everything now has to be in Spanish as well as English.

I find that speaking Irish around these folks can be a blast. They understand English, don't think they don't, but they just refuse to speak it. Fire off a language they don't understand and they seem to be bothered by it.

All together now, "Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww........."

Nice when you can say "Conas ta tu?" to someone and he backs away from you with worry in his eyes.

Seriously, some of the older folks in my family spoke Irish but it was slowly disappearing. Just doing my part to keep it alive, although I am anything but fluent in it. Someday maybe.

I served in the US Army and was stationed in Germany for awhile and my high school German did help. Little snippets of Japanese I learned from my brothers from when they served in the military helped me out when I was shipped there. My sister took Italian when she was in high school and she practiced it with me, so the little I did know helped me when I was stationed in Italy. With this in mind, I fail to see how learning ONLY Spanish as an additional language will help.

I am fluent in American Sign Language, so do I have to learn the Spanish version of that now?

I read somewhere that for any(?) given school district in New Jersey (Old Bridge was the example in the article and the language was Gujerati), if there are a certain minimum number of students whose native language is other than English, the school district is required to offer that language to the students. The minimum number of students required for this rule to apply seemed very low, like 20 or something. I'd be interested in having this confirmed by one of our teacher-members - Antaine perhaps?

So...........wishful thinking: Can't we find the requisite number of families from Ireland whose primary language is Irish and locate them here in New Jersey? Then we could start our own Gaelscoil! :)

I have a cousin who is a grammar school teacher in Wall Twp NJ, and she told me that the school boards are advised by the state as to what is and is not offered as far as curriculum goes, no matter what the population of the town or district may be. That figures, doesn't it? Have people from outside of the community "advise" them.

She tells me the Hispanic population of Wall is very small, but they have to offer Spanish anyway.

She isn't the school board, but this is how she understands it.

I've heard nothing of such a rule, and I live two towns over from Old Bridge.

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just means I haven't heard of it.

The sad thing is, most of those going to college will fulfill their minimum 2 semester requirement, and will typically take what they took in HS.

So they wind up taking Spanish in college, too, despite others being offered.

And the last time I said Conas atá tú? to a native Spanish speaker, he answered me correctly in Spanish, thinking I'd said Cómo está. Gotta switch to Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú...

I use it with my students. Many of them (and not all who have Spanish as their native language) think it's cute to address a teacher in Spanish...not typically malicious, just something silly or "how do we do this" or something. I always respond in Irish in such instances, which then brings up a discussion of "what language is that?" and "don't they speak english there?"

Inevitably, at least one student thinks it's really cool, so I run him/her copies of Pimsleur and some phrase sheets I have worked up. I figure *some* of them may go on to make a real attempt at the language...especially since NJ is in the heartland of Daltaí country...

Mothrae, when talking about the immigrants, remember 2 things:
1. Everyone in America hated the Irish when they came over, so don't be so quick turn your back on other unwanted immigrants.
2. It's much easier to hear and understand a language then to speak and understand a language.

And if you think about it: To what advantage would it be to the immigrants to pretend they don't know English?

Antaine, a chara,

A couple of us were speaking Irish on the 6 train in NYC Saturday night, packed in like sardines, and a woman overhearing the conversation said "Is that Scottish Gaelic?"

...and about a month ago, different friend, different train, same language (Gaeilge) got the query "is that Welsh that you're speaking?"

Also, I've met a surprising number of Irish speakers (incl native speakers) in the last few months in my suburban NJ area -- so they're out there.

Paul

I wish there were more Irish people around whare I live, especially if they were native speakers of Irish. The all of you who find them around are fortunate. As for Spanish, I took it in HS, what else is new, and I've had to take 2 years of a foreign language at college and so I chose Spanish because they of course didn't have the language that I actually care about. Also because I had some and peoplespeak it round here. I'm a few weeks away from being done, jumping with unbridaled joy, and then I'll not have to take it anymore! I have nothing against the language itself, its fine as any language is, but I find it really irritating that my school doesn't have Irish. They've got Middle Eastern studies and other niche programs but they havn't got Irish studies. I think it would be nice if they at least had a minor program in it or something, it doesn't even have to be a major. Oh and I think its neat that those people from Toronto know each other and they figured it out here, sure and its a small world after all. And I've experienced the same thing with conas ta tu sounding to people like Spanish, I said it to a friend who wasn't expecting it and she said muy bien and I told her no, that was not Spanish it was Irish.

Beir bua agus beannacht.